Will Realtors Be Replaced By AI ?

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Canadian Real Estate Investor, where hosts Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate

[00:00:06] the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio.

[00:00:13] Welcome back to The Canadian Real Estate Investor podcast, where we have meetups coast to coast

[00:00:18] and they are sponsored by someone whose ads you probably heard on the show, Sherwin Williams,

[00:00:24] the greatest paint manufacturer in the world.

[00:00:27] Are we allowed to say that?

[00:00:28] In the world.

[00:00:29] Yeah, of course.

[00:00:30] It's our show and you know what?

[00:00:31] They sponsor it and we love them.

[00:00:34] I mean, and I've used a lot of Sherwin Williams paint over the years and Dan, I know you

[00:00:38] have too because paint is like literally the best ROI.

[00:00:42] Yeah.

[00:00:42] How do you paint over a light switch or an electrical plug or over tile or literally

[00:00:47] just, you know, paint, do what landlords do best and just paint over everything.

[00:00:51] But in all seriousness, we have a very cool announcement before we get into today's

[00:00:55] show. We are doing a fairly large giveaway, I would say.

[00:01:00] I mean, it's not as small.

[00:01:01] Fairly large is like a...

[00:01:02] Paint or money.

[00:01:03] That's a fairly large understatement, I would say.

[00:01:08] What are we giving away here, Dan?

[00:01:10] We're giving away $2,400 worth of paint, 15 gallons of it.

[00:01:14] We're actually, we're working on a concept right now where we're going to get an

[00:01:18] empty bucket of paint to visualize how much a gallon is and we're going to put

[00:01:22] Nick in a bathtub.

[00:01:23] I've just volunteered you.

[00:01:25] You're the bathtub person.

[00:01:26] We're going to fill it with 15 gallons of paint and show you how much, I guess

[00:01:31] it would overflow the bathtub actually.

[00:01:33] That's how much paint is.

[00:01:35] So that's your giveaway.

[00:01:36] Me in a bathtub full of paint.

[00:01:38] All right.

[00:01:39] That's how you have to use the paint.

[00:01:40] No, I'm kidding.

[00:01:41] You can use the paint however you want.

[00:01:43] They will provide whatever kind of paint you want, interior, exterior, high

[00:01:47] gloss, dull, whatever it may be.

[00:01:50] And we are super thankful and super excited to work with and develop this

[00:01:55] partnership with Sherwin Williams, who again also sponsors the events.

[00:01:59] And that's how you can get signed up here.

[00:02:01] You have to go and join meetup.com.

[00:02:04] The link is in the show notes and all the show notes.

[00:02:07] We are almost at 2,500 members in like 22 cities across the country.

[00:02:11] Super exciting to see the growth on that side of things.

[00:02:15] And we are just bringing on some absolutely amazing people as our hosts.

[00:02:20] So if you're interested in coming out to one of those, or you are

[00:02:23] interested in hosting, reach out to us.

[00:02:25] And if you are interested in winning that paint, go sign up to meetup.com

[00:02:28] because we are going to be taking a draw from the emails that are in

[00:02:33] meetup.com.

[00:02:34] Not just for meetup.com.

[00:02:35] Well, it kind of sounds like they just have to sign up for meetup.com.

[00:02:39] They have to sign up for our meetups on meetup.com.

[00:02:41] Right.

[00:02:41] The link is in the meetup.com link is in the show notes.

[00:02:45] And yeah, you have to join our meetups and the gallons will be given away at

[00:02:53] said meetups.

[00:02:54] So I think you also have to attend the meetup, right?

[00:02:56] To show your support for Sherwin-Williams Spain.

[00:02:59] What do we got on deck today?

[00:03:00] We got a great little interview.

[00:03:02] Little interview.

[00:03:03] Yeah.

[00:03:03] Big interview.

[00:03:04] I would say.

[00:03:04] Yeah.

[00:03:04] Big hitter in Canadian real estate.

[00:03:07] Yeah.

[00:03:07] Very, very cool CEO of multiple prop tech companies with a background in

[00:03:14] law and teaching and many other things.

[00:03:18] Very talented person who we have a really great discussion with Dan

[00:03:23] regarding AI, which comes up how to utilize AI, what's going to happen to

[00:03:28] realtors in the future and, and you know, just what's happening in the

[00:03:32] market and a lot of other great topics.

[00:03:34] So I'm excited to get into that.

[00:03:37] Yeah, same.

[00:03:38] Let's get to it.

[00:03:39] Okay.

[00:03:39] So today we're joined here by Nataka from Houseful, which used to go by

[00:03:44] the name of Ojo Home, one of the bigger search platforms for people

[00:03:47] looking for real estate in Canada and a partner of RBC.

[00:03:52] So just wondering if you could quickly maybe give us a quick introduction

[00:03:55] on yourself and your career path in real estate.

[00:03:57] I know you've been, been interacting with the real estate industry

[00:04:01] in a variety of ways over the years.

[00:04:03] And then a little bit of a rundown on what Houseful is and what

[00:04:06] Houseful does in the market.

[00:04:08] Awesome.

[00:04:09] So, um, yes, I am an evil lawyer and that's why I cut my teeth on Bay Street.

[00:04:15] I feel like, I feel like people hate, I feel like people hate realtors

[00:04:19] more than lawyers now actually.

[00:04:20] Like I remember that, that 90s movie, uh, liar, liar.

[00:04:23] It was like very leaning into the people not liking lawyers,

[00:04:26] but now I think it's realtor's.

[00:04:28] Yeah.

[00:04:28] Anyway, sorry.

[00:04:30] No, no, no, no.

[00:04:31] I don't know, man.

[00:04:32] Like those lawyers out there, like they, we still get a lot of flock, right?

[00:04:36] Yeah.

[00:04:36] I don't know why.

[00:04:36] So, uh, realizing how much realtors are hated.

[00:04:39] I thought to myself, you know, this whole Bay street gig ain't for me.

[00:04:42] Let's go build some companies.

[00:04:44] And so very quickly I pivoted into private equity where I helped build

[00:04:47] a company that specifically focused on medical office buildings, buying,

[00:04:51] acquiring repositioning across Canada.

[00:04:54] From there, I got a knock on my door.

[00:04:56] I got my real estate sales license by the way, because like

[00:04:59] everybody else who starts is kind of like, I don't want to pay

[00:05:02] realtor to help me buy homes.

[00:05:04] I want it for myself.

[00:05:05] And then of course I become one and I become someone who builds brokerages.

[00:05:11] And so anyway, knock on my door as I sort of was as a Mohawk medical,

[00:05:16] that was the first place that I worked in private equity where we bought

[00:05:18] and sold medical office buildings.

[00:05:19] I wanted to find the next place to build.

[00:05:22] And that was in the brokerage space, help build rural

[00:05:24] arpeggio community in the downtown core.

[00:05:26] And then from there got another knock on my door, uh, from

[00:05:29] pure edge capital, which is a private equity firm that invests in real

[00:05:33] estate specifically in some other things as well in the brokerage world

[00:05:37] asked to help build that out too.

[00:05:38] I said, sure, why not?

[00:05:39] It was about to take another senior role there when I found out about Ojo.

[00:05:46] I literally called the person or rather found on LinkedIn, the founders of

[00:05:50] Ojo in the U S as they started to partner with RBC up here in Canada

[00:05:53] and said, if you come to Canada, let me know because I want to help you

[00:05:58] build, I believe in what you are creating long story short, they said

[00:06:02] yes.

[00:06:03] And in fact, we're building in Canada.

[00:06:04] Why don't you help lead it?

[00:06:05] So I was a president of Ojo home Canada.

[00:06:08] And then from there, we were fully acquired by RBC, at least

[00:06:10] the Canadian portion of it.

[00:06:12] And we rebranded to houseful long story, a lot of bumps on the road,

[00:06:17] you know, to where I am today and a lot of other things that I worked

[00:06:20] on too, but that's the shortest I could possibly make it.

[00:06:24] Yeah.

[00:06:24] That's the classic transition, right?

[00:06:26] Lawyer to realtor to tech entrepreneur story as old as time.

[00:06:30] Yeah.

[00:06:31] Boring.

[00:06:32] Yeah.

[00:06:32] Yeah.

[00:06:33] Fascinating journey.

[00:06:34] One thing I want to kind of pull from there is you, you've said at least two

[00:06:40] or maybe three times now you've gone and built brokerages.

[00:06:44] Can you elaborate on that?

[00:06:45] What does, what does, what goes into building a brokerage?

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:49] Yeah.

[00:06:49] And you know, the more things change and where it all stays the same.

[00:06:52] So in the brokerage realm and, and I know that Daniel, you're,

[00:06:55] you're part of this too, so you can attest to it really, it's all

[00:06:58] about getting two things.

[00:07:00] Realtors that are productive.

[00:07:02] That's like huge, huge, huge, huge in building a brokerage.

[00:07:05] And then the second piece of course is getting leads in to

[00:07:09] make those agents productive.

[00:07:11] Right?

[00:07:11] And so what, what you're always focusing on is building that actual

[00:07:15] base and you can do it in several ways, one purely just attracting

[00:07:18] agents to your brokerage and that could be by building out certain

[00:07:21] services and value props so that agents do come another two, another

[00:07:25] one is just by acquiring other brokerages as well.

[00:07:27] There could be other creative things that you do, like licensing out

[00:07:30] the brokerage brand, et cetera.

[00:07:31] So a lot of different angles that you can take.

[00:07:34] I think, and I know this is not the focus of today, but the

[00:07:37] brokerage industry, when we talk about the most amount of change

[00:07:41] that we're going to likely see it's the brokerage industry,

[00:07:43] specifically not the realtors, but the brokerage industry where I

[00:07:47] think we're going to see a lot of change and having played that game.

[00:07:50] Uh, I think it is one of the most interesting places you can be

[00:07:55] and most difficult to build a business.

[00:07:57] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:07:59] Absolutely.

[00:08:00] I think, uh, especially like sales, salespeople hiring, managing salespeople.

[00:08:04] I mean, you hear about it even in the tech space and I guess you have a

[00:08:06] collision of both worlds, but like, I know some of probably the highest

[00:08:09] earning salespeople in SAS or real estate and the biggest thing that you

[00:08:15] hear about people who coach and manage sales, salespeople.

[00:08:18] And I was actually just on the phone with, uh, with somebody from

[00:08:21] RBC who manages the sales team on the, on the mortgage side discussing,

[00:08:25] you know, potentially like doing some social media work.

[00:08:27] And, um, a lot of it is just like keeping them motivated to make that next

[00:08:31] call and then put the next call in the CRM.

[00:08:33] And I think we're, we're starting to see technology evolve in, in that regard.

[00:08:40] I guess, uh, on that note sort of what, what role do you see,

[00:08:43] like when you're talking about it changing a lot, what role do you see

[00:08:46] prop tech having in the industry as from a sales perspective, but also

[00:08:51] just from like with your background in asset management or assets or

[00:08:54] real estate in general.

[00:08:56] So let's focus on the real estate sector, specific in the residential sector,

[00:09:00] right? As opposed to commercial let's park commercial let's park, um, green

[00:09:05] energy. There's a lot of stuff that we can talk about, but let's be,

[00:09:07] let's be crisp and what we're going to talk about.

[00:09:09] And I'm going to talk specifically about the real estate

[00:09:11] residential brokerage space.

[00:09:14] So ever since I've been in real estate and I keep on thinking

[00:09:17] that was five years ago.

[00:09:18] No, no, it's almost like 15.

[00:09:21] And I'm like, geez, where does time go?

[00:09:23] Anyway, point being is ever since like 15 years ago, I'm constantly

[00:09:28] approached with this is going to change everything gone will be realtors

[00:09:35] gone will be how we do things.

[00:09:37] Everything is going to change this prop tech solution.

[00:09:39] Now I've heard that for 15 years and nothing has really changed.

[00:09:43] And I hate to have a really boring answer, but the truth is I don't

[00:09:49] think we're going to see real estate agents disappear in the prop tech

[00:09:53] space, right? The residential prop tech space.

[00:09:56] I do think, um, brokerages are going to change.

[00:10:00] Um, and I believe that a lot of what brokerages do right now is purely

[00:10:05] compliance and will likely be replaced by a lot of AI tools.

[00:10:09] Now I was just at realtor quest and talking with a lot of different

[00:10:13] companies that service realtors.

[00:10:15] And I've seen a big change in the prop tech space.

[00:10:18] We're finally giving up and saying, you know what realtors aren't getting

[00:10:21] replaced. Every company that tries eventually pivots back to incorporating

[00:10:25] the realtor in some capacity.

[00:10:27] We could talk about why I believe that to be the case, but what I end

[00:10:30] up seeing at what I'm seeing right now rather is AI supporting the realtor

[00:10:36] and being more productive and also answering basic questions for the

[00:10:41] consumers.

[00:10:41] There's two things, one from the realtor perspective and one from the

[00:10:45] consumer perspective as to how technology is going to impact, I would

[00:10:49] say the next five years and how we search from the consumer perspective.

[00:10:53] I believe what's going to happen is we are going to likely adopt the

[00:10:58] approach for searching for stuff that we are seeing the younger generation

[00:11:02] do, which is chat GPT.

[00:11:05] Now, Hey, chat GPT.

[00:11:06] I'm, you know, I want to buy a birthday gift.

[00:11:09] I don't know why that bubble just came up, but there you go.

[00:11:11] It's an apple camera thing.

[00:11:12] Can you repeat the part?

[00:11:14] If, if, uh, cause it just, you just had a gap in your audio, but can you

[00:11:17] repeat, uh, yeah, no, it's all good.

[00:11:19] But, um, just the part about, um, like what AI, but right before you

[00:11:23] mentioned, um, AI supporting realtors, I don't, I don't remember exactly why

[00:11:26] don't, I don't know.

[00:11:27] Cause it gapped out, but just, uh, so we have the audio there.

[00:11:30] No problem.

[00:11:31] So I believe what I was saying is that I was at realtor quest and

[00:11:34] I see a change, it's a move away from technology that's trying to

[00:11:39] replace a realtor because we've now just abandoned that idea.

[00:11:42] I've been in, like, I've heard that realtors are going to be replaced

[00:11:45] for over 15 years and no one has done it successfully for a variety

[00:11:49] of different reasons that I've thought deeply about.

[00:11:52] So if we want to talk about that happy too, but point being is now

[00:11:56] I'm seeing prop tech companies abandon that idea and say, you know what?

[00:12:00] What we can do is instead support the realtor and or support the

[00:12:06] consumer in connecting with the realtor.

[00:12:08] So when I think about prop tech right now in the residential space, I

[00:12:12] think of two things, the perspective of the realtor perspective of the consumer.

[00:12:16] So prop tech that is a, is changing the way consumers essentially behave.

[00:12:22] I think is going to focus on simply the search process.

[00:12:25] So we're going to move away.

[00:12:26] I think, and what I'm seeing right now from going to Google and like

[00:12:31] searching Toronto and then like trying to figure out from Toronto where I

[00:12:35] want to live to something like this.

[00:12:37] Hey, you know, let's say Royal Page agent will be a chat bot.

[00:12:40] This is what I'm seeing already being developed.

[00:12:42] I am 35 years old, just got married, have a kid on the way.

[00:12:47] I live in downtown Toronto right now.

[00:12:49] I'm renting.

[00:12:50] I work at XYZ office tower.

[00:12:54] I want a two car garage, you know, pool in the backyard one hour

[00:12:59] max commute to the downtown core.

[00:13:02] What are some listings that you think, you know, are good for me

[00:13:05] with XYZ budget and boom, you'll get your curated list of homes that

[00:13:12] match what you're looking for.

[00:13:14] Now I believe that at this point, the realtor will still have a rule.

[00:13:19] Why?

[00:13:20] Because we know now I'm a realtor.

[00:13:23] I'm a lawyer.

[00:13:24] I still use a realtor and I still use a lawyer in order to

[00:13:27] actually find and buy real estate.

[00:13:29] Why?

[00:13:30] We want that fact check.

[00:13:31] We want that gut check.

[00:13:32] We want to make sure that we actually are making a good decision and it does

[00:13:35] still require a bit of that human touch.

[00:13:38] And so what I do believe is finally me, the buyer, for example, will then

[00:13:42] have my curated list of homes that I'm interested in and that will be the

[00:13:47] juncture in which I'll be connected with the realtor.

[00:13:49] So now let's take the realtor's perspective.

[00:13:52] I believe that property technology, at least what I saw at world request

[00:13:55] so far, will start to help the agent focus on those that are more

[00:14:01] closer to the buying process.

[00:14:03] And will help educate the consumer on things like the difference between

[00:14:08] list price and sale price that happens all the time.

[00:14:11] My husband and I were looking for a home.

[00:14:12] He'd be like, Natalka let's look at this home.

[00:14:14] I'm like, sweetheart, that's the list price is going to be at least

[00:14:17] a million dollars over that list price.

[00:14:19] Not in our budget, but like that educational process is going to happen

[00:14:23] by virtue of technology, which will allow agents then to work with more,

[00:14:26] I would say high intent leads in their home journey and home buying process.

[00:14:31] But will realtors be replaced?

[00:14:32] No.

[00:14:33] Yeah, I'm of the same perspective and I know Nick has some thoughts here.

[00:14:38] I love to hear them.

[00:14:39] Yeah, I thought it was interesting because you mentioned realtor quest

[00:14:43] and some of the prop techs there.

[00:14:45] And I think I was, so I was on the team that built a technology

[00:14:48] that now has been licensed by the Toronto real estate board.

[00:14:51] I believe it was announced at realtor quest.

[00:14:53] I'm not sure.

[00:14:54] So it's called the Habistat.

[00:14:56] Oh, I didn't hear that announcement.

[00:14:57] It was because I was like running around with realtors.

[00:15:00] Yeah, maybe I I'm not sure.

[00:15:02] So I might have to to redact that if I'm wrong.

[00:15:04] But the the part that I find interesting is like we built this tool for me.

[00:15:10] It was to help like originally I built it for myself to help me

[00:15:13] analyze the market, the real estate market.

[00:15:16] And I think about technology as almost getting to the point where

[00:15:20] or so the real estate industry, almost getting to the point

[00:15:22] where the architecture industry got to with CAD

[00:15:25] and they call it computer aided design.

[00:15:27] Right. That's what it stands for.

[00:15:28] And I've always I've always joked about this on that.

[00:15:30] You can buy this acronym off of me.

[00:15:32] Care computer assisted real estate, right?

[00:15:34] Or computer aided real estate, which I think is where we're going to get to.

[00:15:37] I don't think I agree with you.

[00:15:38] I don't think the realtor will be replaced, but I think they'll become

[00:15:40] far more efficient and potentially some deflationary cost savings

[00:15:43] could come from that because they have to do less work in the transaction.

[00:15:46] Nick, did you want to jump in there?

[00:15:47] I know you had some comments and maybe a question.

[00:15:49] Yeah, yeah.

[00:15:50] So first of all, you know, I saw the realtor quest stuff.

[00:15:53] Shout out to Martha Stewart, who I didn't know was getting into real estate,

[00:15:56] but she was the keynote speaker there, which is just hilarious.

[00:16:00] A great acronym as well then.

[00:16:01] And Natalya, I think you just came up

[00:16:04] and helped me come up with the title for this episode.

[00:16:06] You know, will be will realtors be replaced by AI?

[00:16:08] And, you know, Dan and I have played a lot in the prop tech space.

[00:16:12] We've we know we sit on different boards of prop tech companies.

[00:16:15] We have the opportunity to interview people such as yourself

[00:16:17] that are deep in this space.

[00:16:18] And you're right, this has been the subject

[00:16:21] that has been talked about for so long.

[00:16:24] And it's funny because what it really comes down to me is

[00:16:29] is the difference between the two sides of real estate,

[00:16:33] whether it's real estate investing or purchasing.

[00:16:34] And that is the numbers and the human element.

[00:16:37] And those can be looked at as the hard skills and the soft skills.

[00:16:41] Now, the hard skills are all the stuff you just mentioned, right?

[00:16:44] The chatbot, the combing through the listings, the the,

[00:16:48] you know, checking off the boxes of that pool, that two car garage.

[00:16:51] You know, what's the budget?

[00:16:52] You know, put this into the calculator and see.

[00:16:54] And a lot of that stuff's becoming automated anyways, right?

[00:16:57] On both the mortgage and the real estate side of things.

[00:16:59] What you're not going to ever automate is the soft skills, right?

[00:17:03] Those interpersonal skills that, you know, are really known as

[00:17:07] the human skills, the human side of real estate.

[00:17:10] So until AI gets to be, you know, so human like

[00:17:13] that you can know, like and trust them.

[00:17:16] I think realtors and I think a lot of people in this space are safe.

[00:17:20] They just need to make sure that they've got those interpersonal

[00:17:22] and human soft skills dialed in.

[00:17:26] Absolutely.

[00:17:27] I'm going to turn this back on the both of you.

[00:17:29] Why do you think the soft skill is important?

[00:17:33] Oh, wow. Why are you interviewing us now?

[00:17:35] That's not how this goes.

[00:17:36] I was going to flip the script here, man.

[00:17:39] I'm such a lawyer. I'm not going to answer anything.

[00:17:40] I'm going to throw it back at you.

[00:17:41] I'm pleading the fifth.

[00:17:42] When you go into politics.

[00:17:44] Yeah, I think I think that professionals can really divide themselves

[00:17:48] in two ways or sorry, differentiate themselves from a technology

[00:17:52] in two ways. One is service and the other one is results.

[00:17:55] Right. And that's those are the two things that a computer can't

[00:17:59] can't give a person right now, at least.

[00:18:01] So I think like a computer can't go and have that intimate,

[00:18:04] you know, in depth kind of conversation and understand someone's needs.

[00:18:09] Like they're, you know, they're robots.

[00:18:10] They they no offense to the robots.

[00:18:12] I want to be on their good side and for when they take over.

[00:18:14] But but but, you know, for now, they don't have emotion.

[00:18:18] And so I think that realtors and you'll start to see

[00:18:21] and I think you're already seeing this actually progression towards realtors

[00:18:25] who are succeeding are the ones who really are good with those

[00:18:27] qualitative skill sets. Right.

[00:18:29] And the quantitative part, people like me who are more results

[00:18:32] driven and data driven are much easier to replace by by a by a robot

[00:18:37] because a robot can do that far more efficiently than I can

[00:18:40] if it's if it's given the right inputs. Right.

[00:18:42] So that would be my thought.

[00:18:43] I think it's purely a math thing. Right.

[00:18:45] It's just like you can't you can't really teach a machine

[00:18:48] to have emotion yet.

[00:18:51] Yeah, the the only piece that I would add to that is

[00:18:55] in a real estate and and sales and business are very much driven by relationships.

[00:19:02] You want to work with people that you know and and trust.

[00:19:07] And that's that's what being a human is.

[00:19:11] So I still think that that part of whether it's real estate

[00:19:14] or any other type of business or any other type of sales

[00:19:18] organization, I think that that that relationship piece

[00:19:22] and the ability to develop trust with another person,

[00:19:27] you know, that's not going to go away for any time soon.

[00:19:30] And just to add to that, like one thing where I see Proptech helping

[00:19:33] and we'll go to like where I see the value right now

[00:19:37] and why believe that realtors will still be a part of the overall

[00:19:43] architecture of what it is to buy and sell a home.

[00:19:46] Well, take a look at a company called Mave, really cool company.

[00:19:50] And no, I'm not on the board or anything like that.

[00:19:52] This is not solicited by them.

[00:19:53] I I actually yeah, I can solve for them.

[00:19:57] Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:19:59] OK, so I'm going to stop right there.

[00:20:00] Daniel, you know, like like brilliant.

[00:20:02] But that's a good example.

[00:20:03] So for those who don't know, essentially it's like a text messaging system.

[00:20:07] I'm a realtor and I'm like, I have one to three mainstream

[00:20:10] that's coming up.

[00:20:11] You know, can you create a listing package?

[00:20:13] Boom, it creates all that like stuff that an agent would have to sit there

[00:20:18] and do and or brokerage would have to pay for a marketing person.

[00:20:22] So like that's where Proptech I think will be successful

[00:20:25] for replacing the realtor.

[00:20:27] I don't think it will, because I don't think the technology is going to be there yet.

[00:20:31] Truly, like if you think about, for example, Daniel,

[00:20:34] you work in like the northern north part of like Aurora, your king, etc.

[00:20:39] Like what is it called?

[00:20:40] Schomburg, all that stuff.

[00:20:42] To actually understand the culture,

[00:20:46] the, you know, the boots on ground, what it is to live there.

[00:20:50] That still hasn't been translated well in the data.

[00:20:54] And so you're always going to need a realtor to give you that context.

[00:20:57] Right. And context is important.

[00:20:59] Plus, I believe we still want to fact check the computer.

[00:21:04] Did the computer let's say the computer can automate, and I think it will.

[00:21:08] How much I should offer for a particular home. Right.

[00:21:11] I still want a human to be like, do they get it right?

[00:21:15] Like, was that is that really the right price?

[00:21:18] Right. Or, you know, am I getting am I buying a lemon?

[00:21:21] Like, what do you think?

[00:21:22] And I think that that particular piece, that human element,

[00:21:25] it's going to be hard to replicate with technology.

[00:21:27] I don't think we're there yet.

[00:21:28] And that is going to be something that will insulate realtors from being replaced.

[00:21:33] Yeah, it's sorry.

[00:21:34] Sorry, Nick. I know you got another question here that it's fascinating

[00:21:37] because I built an AVM like six years ago with a guy from who built the AVM

[00:21:42] that all the banks used to appraise.

[00:21:44] I won't mention the company, but it's the biggest AVM company.

[00:21:48] And they, you know, we can never find the value like was close enough.

[00:21:53] And so I always thought and I want this is what I wanted to do.

[00:21:56] And I couldn't find a way to do it meaningfully.

[00:21:58] Now, AVMs are super common, but was actually take that

[00:22:01] and put it on a realtor's website and have it as a form.

[00:22:03] Like put it on put it on every realtors website.

[00:22:05] And then they can use it to inbound their own leads.

[00:22:08] And they have their responsibility to use this thing for free is to refine the data set.

[00:22:13] Right. So they would go back and say, well, yeah, it's actually probably worth this.

[00:22:17] And because I think an AVM can get within probably one or maybe one

[00:22:21] or two standard deviations of what it should be.

[00:22:23] I think I think the realtor is it's like what's what's the

[00:22:28] and we're in a market where pricing is so competitive.

[00:22:30] It's not just it's not just comparable. Right.

[00:22:33] It's also competitive analysis.

[00:22:35] And so you also want to look at what, you know,

[00:22:38] what other listings you're showing against in the market.

[00:22:40] That that's going to play a huge role in what your pricing, not just.

[00:22:43] And so you need like you need somebody you need it real time.

[00:22:45] You can't just rely on the most recent data because like we have,

[00:22:49] you know, when we're when we're putting properties in the market,

[00:22:51] it's like, yeah, it could be worth this today.

[00:22:53] But when you're when you're actually ready to sell, if you're up against ten listings

[00:22:55] rather than the zero you're up against today, then the pricing environment is going to be completely different.

[00:22:59] Oh, and the nature of those listings.

[00:23:01] Like if someone has a better backyard than you,

[00:23:03] if someone has like we've done the entire interior of the kitchen than you.

[00:23:06] And I think I think we do all of us have a bit of an economics background,

[00:23:11] like like the rational human does not exist.

[00:23:15] And so if you're going to if it like it does not like, sorry.

[00:23:19] And so to have like Daniel, to your point, like a precise AVM,

[00:23:23] I have yet to see a good AVM that is on the dot,

[00:23:27] like on the nose perfect and across Canada.

[00:23:30] I have yet to see it.

[00:23:33] For sure, I'll just jump in there for we introduce nonstop acronyms on this show.

[00:23:37] So AVM is automated valuation model for all those listening that

[00:23:42] that haven't built one out like Dan or familiar with them like

[00:23:46] like the two of us, Nathalicus.

[00:23:47] So I do want to keep the conversation moving here, though, because, you know,

[00:23:53] it's funny that two realtors and a mortgage agent all can agree upon that,

[00:23:58] hey, we're not going to get replaced by a surprise surprise,

[00:24:01] not anytime soon anyways.

[00:24:03] But I want to go back to Houseful where you are the CEO of.

[00:24:08] So what? Chief real estate officer.

[00:24:11] Chief CRO.

[00:24:13] OK, I like it.

[00:24:14] Another new acronym for our listeners here.

[00:24:16] I know I this is the first time I've heard of it too.

[00:24:19] Never heard of it.

[00:24:20] What what makes Houseful different in in, you know,

[00:24:25] there's there's so much prop tech out there.

[00:24:27] You've got the legacy stuff like Realtor.ca.

[00:24:31] What makes you guys different?

[00:24:33] So this is actually why I fell in love with Ojo and frankly,

[00:24:35] reached out and saying like, if you ever come to Canada, like you get it.

[00:24:39] You get our space.

[00:24:40] Let's talk about it from the realtor perspective first.

[00:24:45] OK, so there are tons of lead gen platforms.

[00:24:48] Oh, my God. I used to be approached all the time

[00:24:49] and I used to tell my realtors do not use lead gen platforms.

[00:24:53] They are garbage for two reasons.

[00:24:56] Number one, how the model typically worked in lead gen for the realtor

[00:24:59] is that you would pay upfront like 1000 bucks a month

[00:25:02] and there would be no guarantees to the quality of the lead.

[00:25:05] So you'd be out of pocket as a realtor

[00:25:07] for a company that is not incented because of the business model.

[00:25:12] Pay me a fee and I'll just send you leads

[00:25:14] to make sure those leads were actually, I don't want to say quality,

[00:25:17] but high intent and real.

[00:25:18] So often these realtors that I worked with would buy a bunch of leads.

[00:25:23] The leads would be fake with fake emails, fake phone numbers,

[00:25:25] and they'd be out of pocket.

[00:25:26] Right. OK, so like I thought it's

[00:25:29] classic, classic.

[00:25:31] So when Ojo came in, I saw a completely different business model

[00:25:34] that made sense.

[00:25:36] The business model was that agent, you don't pay for anything

[00:25:41] until we send you a lead that you actually transact with and close.

[00:25:44] And then there's a small referral fee that is, in my opinion,

[00:25:47] below market or at market now.

[00:25:49] I thought brilliant, brilliant because this does two things.

[00:25:53] Number one, it makes sure that Ojo does everything

[00:25:56] in its power to send to the realtor a quality lead,

[00:26:00] because if they don't get paid, we don't get paid.

[00:26:03] OK, so that's one now then to add to that the consumer perspective.

[00:26:07] And what I fell in love with and then what we're continuing to do

[00:26:11] is we understand and Ojo understands that the process

[00:26:15] to buy a home is complicated.

[00:26:17] And so we're not just kind of like sending you through

[00:26:20] like a cluttered space.

[00:26:21] We're actually being very cognizant and mindful about how much

[00:26:26] about your journey and your path.

[00:26:28] And we support that by providing a ton of information

[00:26:32] to make sure that you understand what you're doing even before

[00:26:35] you're being connected with a realtor.

[00:26:37] So it's information based, it's value driven to the consumer.

[00:26:41] And then when you are already as a consumer,

[00:26:43] you can always click connect with the realtor and a human being.

[00:26:46] Think about it actually calls you, ask you questions

[00:26:50] about where you are in your journey or you preapproved, etc.

[00:26:52] And then we connect you with a realtor that us at Ojo now houseful

[00:26:57] have screened to be a great agent that can support you

[00:27:00] with your specific needs.

[00:27:02] So, again, it's a company that understands and prioritizes

[00:27:05] the consumer experience, matches them with a realtor

[00:27:09] who actually works within that space and also makes sure

[00:27:13] that that agent is someone that not only you can work with,

[00:27:16] but also is incented to make sure that you are supported as well

[00:27:19] because you're not paying out of pocket.

[00:27:21] So they're not going to try and go push you down a path

[00:27:24] to recoup those costs, right?

[00:27:26] They're going to make sure they push you down a path

[00:27:27] or put you down a path that makes sense for you.

[00:27:29] Very cool. So it's kind of a win, win, win, right?

[00:27:33] I mean, the agent wins because they get a great lead.

[00:27:36] The customer and client win because they know they're getting matched

[00:27:40] up with the right people.

[00:27:40] And then on the actual platform, you guys have a ton of tools.

[00:27:46] I know from financial tools to to market survey.

[00:27:50] I know we're going to get into

[00:27:52] and we're going to kind of finish off the episode with

[00:27:54] with a great survey that you guys put together.

[00:27:56] So I encourage everyone to go check out Houseful.

[00:27:59] Before we get into that, the study that that you put out,

[00:28:03] which I think Dan's going to ask next, I wanted to see what

[00:28:07] what your thoughts, you know, having having access to all of this

[00:28:11] information and having access to to the data and being in the industry

[00:28:15] yourself, what trends are are you and the team at Houseful

[00:28:19] seen in the market right now?

[00:28:22] So let's let's start with the obvious.

[00:28:26] Getting onto the path of homeownership is tough, right?

[00:28:31] It's not easy.

[00:28:33] So that's that's something that's quite obvious that we're looking at.

[00:28:36] And I personally am wondering how the rental market

[00:28:40] is going to play in a lot of business models for not only

[00:28:44] like platforms like search platforms, but also for realtors.

[00:28:47] I think that's going to take up more of the business of realtors,

[00:28:52] like the actual rental space.

[00:28:55] So that's really interesting.

[00:28:56] I'm also looking at alternative financing and alternative methods

[00:29:00] of homeownership, such as Arbro, for example, fractional ownership.

[00:29:05] It's interesting.

[00:29:05] It's been around for a long time and like rent

[00:29:07] owns have been around forever.

[00:29:09] But we're actually going to see more traction and more interest in

[00:29:12] different ways of financing and getting into the homeownership space.

[00:29:17] So it's like that whole like, how do I actually get there?

[00:29:20] Now, here's something else that I find like what we're looking at

[00:29:23] is, of course, newcomers, newcomers tend to be ones

[00:29:27] that really want to have a home.

[00:29:30] My family sort of falls into that bucket.

[00:29:32] We're not from Canada.

[00:29:33] And homeownership was a huge thing because you don't really see it

[00:29:36] in other parts of the world.

[00:29:38] Homeownership being an actual opportunity, I still think,

[00:29:40] especially with new immigrants coming to Canada, that that vision is still there.

[00:29:45] And they're going to be looking for experts to help support them.

[00:29:48] I can then dive into that survey, if you like, because there's some

[00:29:52] fun pieces of information that I'm looking at too.

[00:29:54] Yeah. So I was about to pivot to that anyways,

[00:29:57] because I think that, you know, as a as a as a company

[00:30:00] that obviously is very in touch with the demand side,

[00:30:02] seeing all these searches and providing all these tools to home buyers.

[00:30:05] It would be, you know, it only only makes sense

[00:30:07] that you would probably observe some big changes

[00:30:09] and what's happening in the Canadian real estate space.

[00:30:11] So I'm just going to read the headline quickly

[00:30:13] and then you can maybe dive in on what you found in this.

[00:30:16] So it says Houseful Survey shows younger first time home buyers in Canada

[00:30:19] are successfully navigating the challenging housing market

[00:30:22] and purchasing ahead of their schedule by making more tradeoffs.

[00:30:25] So you mentioned economics backgrounds.

[00:30:27] The idea of economic tradeoffs is not not something that is strange to us,

[00:30:33] but to those people who maybe haven't thought about it.

[00:30:35] What does that look like? What are those tradeoffs?

[00:30:38] Absolutely. So first of all, we focused on those that are in,

[00:30:42] as you mentioned, like in the under 30 category.

[00:30:45] And that's what we focus and we compared them to those.

[00:30:48] And I know I'm cutting it a little bit.

[00:30:49] So if I cut out, let me know.

[00:30:50] No, repeat when we compared the 30 year olds to those that are over 30,

[00:30:55] which went up until those that were part participated in the survey,

[00:30:59] mostly in the 40s.

[00:31:00] We had some though some people that were part of the survey

[00:31:03] that were also in the 60s as well.

[00:31:05] 60 year old range.

[00:31:07] But anyway, this is the cool thing.

[00:31:09] Everyone talks about Gen Z not being able to afford or giving up on home ownership.

[00:31:15] And that's not what our survey showing.

[00:31:17] So we're just showing that rather than giving up a path to home ownership

[00:31:22] is Daniel, as you mentioned, tradeoffs.

[00:31:23] OK, so what are those tradeoffs?

[00:31:26] Now, for those that have read, I think it's Daniel Foots,

[00:31:31] boom busts and echo book.

[00:31:32] We know the demographics drive everything right.

[00:31:35] So something that's unsurprising is that if you're under 30 years old,

[00:31:39] you're likely going to give up on square footage

[00:31:41] in order to get into the path of home ownership.

[00:31:44] In fact, 65.2% of those surveyed who have purchased said

[00:31:48] square footage is something that they gave up on or traded off on.

[00:31:52] And that makes sense.

[00:31:53] If you're under 30, you let me don't have a kid.

[00:31:55] You likely have a dog and you may not be married.

[00:31:58] So that that is not totally surprising.

[00:32:00] That's what I'm inferring from that particular data set.

[00:32:03] Now, what I do think is kind of cool

[00:32:06] is that 38% of those who bought bought earlier than they actually expected

[00:32:12] in comparison to those who were over 30, that's only about 18.4%.

[00:32:16] And it could be and I'm just inferring here is my my thinking.

[00:32:21] The reason why they may have bought earlier than they thought

[00:32:24] is because they're more willing to sacrifice on things like location,

[00:32:28] things like square footage.

[00:32:30] And just to like round out on the location,

[00:32:33] I was surprised that the younger demographic

[00:32:37] was more willing to sacrifice on location in the older demographic.

[00:32:41] Because I thought, hey, if you're in your late 60s

[00:32:44] or if you're well into your career, you may not care about community.

[00:32:48] You may already own a car, et cetera.

[00:32:50] I thought that the older demographic and me included

[00:32:53] would care more about location.

[00:32:55] Sorry, would care less about location.

[00:32:57] It's not the case.

[00:32:58] It's those under 30, 28.3% of them prioritize

[00:33:02] and did not want to make a trade off on location,

[00:33:05] whereas 34.9% of those over 30 prioritize location.

[00:33:10] That was a really neat data point.

[00:33:12] I can go on if you like.

[00:33:14] Yeah, that's that's fascinating.

[00:33:15] And please do go on.

[00:33:16] I just want to jump in and make a quick point here.

[00:33:18] It's you know, I'm I'm in my mid 30s and

[00:33:22] you look great.

[00:33:24] Thank you.

[00:33:25] And if you look back, let's say to our parents age, for instance, right?

[00:33:31] When our parents were in their mid 30s, they needed larger houses

[00:33:34] because yes, they you know, they were likely married.

[00:33:37] They probably had that dog that you mentioned,

[00:33:39] but they probably had two, three or four, maybe more kids.

[00:33:44] Right now, I know the numbers speak louder than

[00:33:48] than my personal anecdotes, but they line up.

[00:33:51] And most of my friends either, you know, have have one or two kids.

[00:33:56] You know, having three or four kids these days is becoming a bit more rare.

[00:34:00] So that that need and that desire for more square footage

[00:34:04] is it might still exist, but it's being pushed further and further away

[00:34:08] from that younger age. Right.

[00:34:11] So I mean, it makes complete sense.

[00:34:13] And, you know, Dan and I have spoken a lot about how

[00:34:15] there is a square footage problem here in not only Canada, but North America.

[00:34:18] We build the homes too big and no one spends time in half the rooms.

[00:34:22] So I think it's a mindset and and birth rate.

[00:34:25] And there's so many there's so many things pointing us

[00:34:28] in that direction where smaller is OK, especially if it means we

[00:34:32] we can actually get in.

[00:34:33] And if we're if we're sacrificing that, then I want to be living

[00:34:37] in the city center. I don't want the car to have to drive in. Right.

[00:34:40] I want that. It becomes more of a lifestyle choice. Right.

[00:34:44] Than anything else. Right.

[00:34:47] Can I just jump in on something there?

[00:34:48] So something that I think about often is if you go to Europe

[00:34:51] and you take a look at the hotel rooms.

[00:34:53] Oh, my God. I traveled to the kid to France as of late.

[00:34:56] Like literally, like we were on top of each other.

[00:34:58] Like there was nowhere for your luggage.

[00:35:01] And that's normal.

[00:35:02] Like in Europe, your square footage is super small.

[00:35:05] So when I talk to my cousins that are from Europe

[00:35:07] and I say, what's so weird about North America to you?

[00:35:09] You know what they say?

[00:35:10] You have so much space.

[00:35:12] Your laundry, your lot, they couldn't they couldn't believe our appliances.

[00:35:17] Like your laundry is huge.

[00:35:20] Your fridges are massive.

[00:35:23] And so what I think we forget about in North American Canada,

[00:35:28] we have a lot of space that the rest of the world

[00:35:32] doesn't prioritize or doesn't even have. Right.

[00:35:36] And so it's not unusual, I think, for two reasons.

[00:35:39] One, I think we're now just becoming more like Europe and like we are denser.

[00:35:43] And and so therefore we're going to have to make those adjustments.

[00:35:46] But to Nick, to your point,

[00:35:49] those that are buying that are younger, they don't have the square footage

[00:35:53] because they don't need it.

[00:35:54] They don't have the four kids, the dog, the three cars, the whatever.

[00:35:58] Right. So VHS is the records,

[00:36:02] the stuff that our parents used to store.

[00:36:04] Yeah. I mean, we just have less less storage demand.

[00:36:07] I will I want to jump in on the Europe piece

[00:36:10] because you mentioned you you recently traveled to Europe

[00:36:12] and I lived in Europe for a period of time in Switzerland.

[00:36:16] And and traveled around most of Europe.

[00:36:18] And it's it's notable, you know, they've taken

[00:36:22] they were experiencing the population growth that we're seeing today.

[00:36:25] One hundred and fifty, two hundred years ago.

[00:36:27] And it seems like there's a, you know, potentially predictable outcome

[00:36:31] there, which is that a lot of the existing supply ends up

[00:36:35] getting cut up into smaller units like the flats of London.

[00:36:38] As an example, I personally think this is a trend that that will end up

[00:36:42] me too. You know, we'll see we'll see in Canada,

[00:36:44] despite the fact that we have a ton of land and space.

[00:36:47] We just don't we can't build fast enough.

[00:36:48] So we're going to have to cut up existing supply.

[00:36:50] I guess my thought would be it would kind of lead back to what you mentioned

[00:36:53] about realtors beginning to play a bigger and bigger role

[00:36:56] in the leasing side of things.

[00:36:58] Like if you look at even New York City, but also, you know,

[00:37:02] France, Switzerland, et cetera, like they don't have 70,000 realtors

[00:37:05] in a city of six million people like Toronto.

[00:37:08] They don't have the highest realtors per capita in the world.

[00:37:10] I know this is probably a little bit more of a, you know,

[00:37:14] maybe doom and gloom, but is there a potential that we could see

[00:37:17] kind of like a contraction in the real estate

[00:37:21] profession over the next, you know,

[00:37:24] 10 years as a result of those trends?

[00:37:26] And what can real estate professionals do to,

[00:37:29] to be the be the ones who emerge victorious if we do?

[00:37:33] Oh, I love that question.

[00:37:35] And Daniel, so OK, I took a look at the data

[00:37:39] with respect to what percentage of realtors

[00:37:43] that are registered in Ontario actually do business

[00:37:46] and what happened to them over the last 10 years.

[00:37:50] OK, this is what surprised me.

[00:37:53] And I'll keep it simple.

[00:37:56] The busy agents got busier.

[00:37:59] And the distribution of business went to fewer realtors

[00:38:03] that were already busy.

[00:38:05] So 10 years ago, you would have busy,

[00:38:08] very busy, busy, not so busy,

[00:38:11] and then not busy at all. Right now it's very busy,

[00:38:15] not busy at all. Right.

[00:38:17] And so to your point that we know what is happening,

[00:38:20] what's changing, Daniel, I do think, Nick,

[00:38:23] that we're going to likely see more contraction

[00:38:27] in this space in that realtors still may be licensed

[00:38:30] and we may still see the large number of the rate,

[00:38:32] the per capita ratio in Toronto with the highest number of agents

[00:38:36] in Toronto than even like places like L.A., for example.

[00:38:39] I think we're going to see maybe them continue to be licensed,

[00:38:43] but those that are busy will just get busier,

[00:38:45] especially those from what I saw at RealtorQuest

[00:38:48] that are going to embrace AI to instead of take an hour,

[00:38:52] two hours to put that listing presentation together, two seconds.

[00:38:55] You know, so now I can do 10 listing presentations

[00:38:58] as opposed to just one.

[00:39:00] So I think that those are going to really lean into the tech piece

[00:39:02] or just going to be able to accelerate their growth

[00:39:04] and take more to take more of the market.

[00:39:07] Now, to remain victorious in this space,

[00:39:10] I think it's going to be three things that you have to do.

[00:39:13] Number one, I would get used to there you go.

[00:39:17] Even Apple agrees with me.

[00:39:18] I would get I love that that happy thing.

[00:39:20] I would get used to the rental space.

[00:39:23] That is going to be a space that I think realtors can play a role in

[00:39:27] and will continue to because, Daniel, to your point,

[00:39:29] I look at Europe, we're headed there.

[00:39:31] It's just it's an obvious change,

[00:39:33] obvious maturation in our real estate market.

[00:39:36] Number two is being the person that is trusted

[00:39:41] and that over delivers on service.

[00:39:44] No longer are you going to be able to just kind of like

[00:39:48] slap up a listing, thumbs up, call it a day or demographic,

[00:39:52] especially Nick, me, you and I'm older than you.

[00:39:55] So especially you guys, you're used to excellent service.

[00:40:00] Like that is just the way things operate now.

[00:40:03] We're not going to tolerate poor service.

[00:40:05] And with Google and so on and so forth,

[00:40:07] allowing us to search out what that actually means,

[00:40:10] we're not going to tolerate it.

[00:40:11] So we're going to look for realtors are going to go above and beyond.

[00:40:13] You're going to help me move. You're going to help me stage.

[00:40:16] You're going to help make that entire process a lot easier.

[00:40:18] It's going to be white glove service.

[00:40:19] And that's going to be the expectation.

[00:40:21] And guess what data does show outside of just the real estate market.

[00:40:25] People are willing to pay for service, to pay for things to be made easy.

[00:40:30] So number two, make it easy for your consumer.

[00:40:33] Deliver outstanding service that's not delivering.

[00:40:37] I don't know, like a pumpkin on Halloween.

[00:40:39] I'm talking about you make sure that when you're listing my home,

[00:40:44] I don't lift a finger.

[00:40:46] You make sure that if I'm buying with you,

[00:40:48] I'm not sending you listings first.

[00:40:50] You're sending it to me and they're curated.

[00:40:52] And you've made it easy for me to digest what's happening in the market.

[00:40:56] You keep me up to date in the methodology that I want.

[00:40:59] Text, email, phone calls, whatever.

[00:41:01] And so on and so forth.

[00:41:03] OK, so that's number one.

[00:41:04] We talked about AI. Number two, we talked about overdeliver service.

[00:41:08] And then number three, so number three,

[00:41:11] I'm sort of repeating this kind of piece here,

[00:41:13] but it's worth reemphasizing.

[00:41:14] Get into the rental market, because I think that those who are renting

[00:41:18] may end up being those who are buying and owning later on.

[00:41:20] And I do believe that there is going to rent costs are going to continue

[00:41:23] to go up. We're going to see rents.

[00:41:26] I know they have a little bit of a dip lately, but I do think

[00:41:29] as to your point, Daniel, we're not going to be building out

[00:41:31] in other areas in Canada.

[00:41:32] Yes, we have lots of land, but to actually build there,

[00:41:35] it doesn't make sense.

[00:41:36] The population goes to Vancouver, kind of Calgary right now and Toronto.

[00:41:40] Why? Because that's where all industry happens to be.

[00:41:42] That's what your job happens to be.

[00:41:44] And until we invest in infrastructure outside of that

[00:41:48] and companies are willing to have to house offices

[00:41:53] outside of those major hubs, I don't see building out.

[00:41:57] It's going to be building up and it's going to become more competitive

[00:42:00] when it comes to rental rates.

[00:42:02] Wow, that was that was really, really great advice.

[00:42:07] And the it's kind of like you won't get beat by AI,

[00:42:10] but you'll get beat out by someone utilizing AI.

[00:42:13] Right. So I mean, we're sure just just a quick recap, right?

[00:42:16] Use AI use technology to your advantage, overdeliver

[00:42:19] and provide great service and communication.

[00:42:21] That's that human element that we spoke about.

[00:42:23] And then don't be scared of getting into rentals because, you know,

[00:42:27] I think we can all agree that Canada is headed towards that renters economy.

[00:42:31] So really, really great advice and and insights.

[00:42:36] I appreciate that.

[00:42:37] Anything else before we go here?

[00:42:39] Anything you want to leave us with?

[00:42:40] That was a pretty good epic epic monologue there at the end

[00:42:44] with some great pieces of advice.

[00:42:46] Anything else you want to leave us with?

[00:42:48] I only think this one thing that shocked me

[00:42:51] and I have to share with you guys.

[00:42:53] And yes, I monologue often, so feel free to chop that piece

[00:42:55] of great monologues.

[00:42:58] So you get to chill for the first time in a long time.

[00:43:02] So, yeah, no, he's really like, do you breathe like

[00:43:07] and this is what I think like and so on.

[00:43:10] One thing that I thought was super cool and this surprised me.

[00:43:14] So 86.4 percent of those that we surveyed under 30,

[00:43:17] they're living in Toronto, Vancouver, actually paid for their down payment

[00:43:22] by themselves.

[00:43:24] Mic drop. Wow.

[00:43:25] So that was surprising.

[00:43:27] And the reason why I want to just call that piece out.

[00:43:31] I know, I know that many people are saying it's bank of mum and dad.

[00:43:35] And that's the only way.

[00:43:36] And people feel like they're giving up.

[00:43:37] Do not make those tradeoffs, make smart decisions, get on the home

[00:43:42] on the path of homeownership because of forget what exactly

[00:43:45] the number happens to be.

[00:43:46] But a vast overwhelming, I think it was close to the 80s, high 80s

[00:43:50] of those who actually purchased were thrilled that they did.

[00:43:53] They did not regret that decision, notwithstanding anything

[00:43:56] that's happening right now in the market.

[00:43:59] They're happy that they actually gone to that path of homeownership.

[00:44:01] So make those make those tradeoffs get in.

[00:44:04] You won't forget it.

[00:44:06] Awesome. Yeah. Sound advice.

[00:44:08] Natalya, thank you so much from both of us.

[00:44:11] If anyone has any questions, can they go find you on LinkedIn

[00:44:14] or reach out to you at Houseful or how do people get in contact

[00:44:17] with you and know more about you and Houseful?

[00:44:20] So this is where I'm like epically disappointing.

[00:44:23] I have no social media, but LinkedIn.

[00:44:25] So Google Houseful.

[00:44:26] I know I actually tried to find you before, so that's how I know that.

[00:44:30] Yeah, yeah.

[00:44:31] So like I'm like one of those people that I'm like, Insta what?

[00:44:34] Like, you know, what's that TikTok the kiddos are using?

[00:44:37] I'll TikTok all day.

[00:44:38] And so like I'm one of those people.

[00:44:40] I'm a Luddite.

[00:44:41] I'm a Luddite when it comes to social media.

[00:44:42] But I am on LinkedIn.

[00:44:43] Certainly searchable.

[00:44:45] I have a very bizarre name.

[00:44:46] So put in my name.

[00:44:48] It's only one.

[00:44:49] You'll find me.

[00:44:50] I'm fortunate that way as well.

[00:44:51] I have a bizarre name.

[00:44:52] So same with me guys.

[00:44:54] Nick Hill.

[00:44:54] It's very, very unique.

[00:44:58] Thanks so much.

[00:44:59] Thank you so much.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Oh, this was super fun.

[00:45:01] Hope to be back.

[00:45:01] Thank you so much.

[00:45:03] The Canadian real estate investor podcast is for entertainment purposes

[00:45:07] only, and it is not financial advice.

[00:45:10] Nick Hill is a mortgage agent with premier mortgage center and a partner in the G and H

[00:45:16] mortgage group.

[00:45:17] License number 10317, agent license M21004037.

[00:45:25] Daniel Foch is a real estate broker licensed with Rare Real Estate, a member of the

[00:45:31] Canadian Real Estate Association, the Toronto Real Estate Board and the Ontario

[00:45:36] Real Estate Association.