Which Major Cities Are Building The Most Housing

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Canadian Real Estate Investor, where hosts Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio.

[00:00:12] Welcome back to another episode of The Canadian Real Estate Investor, your favorite real estate podcast for all things Canadian.

[00:00:23] I know it's your favorite real estate podcast.

[00:00:24] Yeah, well, I mean, slight bias, but my name is Nick Hill.

[00:00:29] I'm joined by Daniel Foch and today we are covering the housing supply report that CMHC just released.

[00:00:37] You may be asking, what is the housing supply report?

[00:00:42] I'm personally not asking you know what it is, but I can tell our audience what it is.

[00:00:47] That would be great.

[00:00:49] It aims to provide regular insights on new housing supply in Canada's major cities and urban areas.

[00:00:54] These insights position supply as an important element in efforts to advance housing affordability.

[00:01:00] What you'll find in this report is CMHC examines new housing construction trends in Canada's six largest CMAs or census metropolitan areas.

[00:01:09] And as you know, we've talked about this a couple of times on the show, supply is pretty important.

[00:01:13] A lot of people say, you know, population growth is the demand curve.

[00:01:17] This is why real estate is so bullish.

[00:01:18] Well, it isn't if supply is outgrowing it.

[00:01:21] That's obviously not happening right now.

[00:01:23] And we did a whole episode on the Fraser Institute.

[00:01:27] They had a report that showed like how this is how the supply-demand imbalances province by province to see like I think most people would say the gap between supply and demand is the bulk case for Canadian real estate.

[00:01:39] So understanding where that is the worst is important from my perspective.

[00:01:42] Exactly. And I was confused because I thought it was supplying command.

[00:01:46] But no founding commanding conquers.

[00:01:50] That's it.

[00:01:51] Yeah, something like that.

[00:01:52] It was a video game, I think, wasn't it?

[00:01:54] So as Dan said, the CMAs, Canada's six largest CMAs, which is essentially just city centers, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto and Ottawa.

[00:02:04] And of course, we cannot forget Montreal.

[00:02:07] Is that OK pronunciation?

[00:02:09] Morel.

[00:02:10] Morel, damn it.

[00:02:11] CMC examines trends within and across those markets using analysis themes such as housing starts in 2023 and by housing type, both pretty important stats.

[00:02:27] Government programs aimed at increasing rent supply and prolonged construction timelines caused by various supply side challenges.

[00:02:37] So a lot of the stuff we've been talking about neatly packaged in this lovely report by CMHC.

[00:02:43] Yeah. And if you listen to our episode with housing minister, Sean Fraser and shadow housing minister Scott Acheson, they both discuss how they're watching housing starts very closely as an indicator of whether or not housing affordability and the housing crisis is going to improve.

[00:03:00] As they should be pretty.

[00:03:01] So yeah, yeah, for sure.

[00:03:03] And so some of the highlights from the report are in 2023 housing starts in the six largest CMAs combined remain stable.

[00:03:10] Notable increases in the apartment segment, purpose built rental and condominium were offset by declines in ground oriented types.

[00:03:17] So single detached, semi detached and row homes, single detached starts registered the most significant decline of 20 percent.

[00:03:25] Yikes.

[00:03:27] Yeah, in Toronto, Vancouver, Calgary and Ottawa, apartment construction, purpose built rental and condo reached record levels.

[00:03:35] Conversely, apartment construction in Montreal hit an eight year low.

[00:03:38] Purpose built rental units accounted for a greater proportion of apartment starts compared to historical averages.

[00:03:46] Yeah, the high number of rental apartment starts in 2023 reflected an unprecedented level of rental demand.

[00:03:53] Remember when unprecedented was like the word of the year, man, that was the that was the worst unprecedented use of the word unprecedented.

[00:03:59] And here we are still seeing the years later.

[00:04:01] However, ongoing challenges on the supply side suggest that demand will continue to outpace the supply.

[00:04:09] No real surprise there.

[00:04:10] If you've listened to the show or kept up with any news, we know the gap there is massive.

[00:04:14] So record condominium apartment starts reflected robust pre sale activity and favorable boring rates secured before 2023.

[00:04:25] We expect condominium apartment starts to moderate in 2024 to reflect the current demand conditions and financial challenges.

[00:04:33] Now, ground oriented homes, especially single detached properties have become increasingly unaffordable for buyers.

[00:04:42] Guess what? That's kind of what everyone wants, right?

[00:04:44] That's the Canadian dream.

[00:04:46] The single detached home with the white picket fence.

[00:04:49] The share of the construction accounted for by single detached homes reached a record low as expected to remain low in the near term.

[00:04:59] Now, the supply barriers stem from rising costs, growing project sizes, labor shortages.

[00:05:06] And these have all resulted in extended construction timelines.

[00:05:11] Now, various levels of government have implemented or announced new programs which we have discussed in multiple episodes.

[00:05:20] And we actually had the two, some basically the two most important people for housing, the Minister of Housing and the Shadow Minister on to discuss that as well.

[00:05:28] To discuss these programs meant to stimulate the supply of new rental housing.

[00:05:33] And there was a high uptake in use of these programs by developers.

[00:05:39] Thankfully, those are the exact people that should be using them, whether the large scale, the mid cap.

[00:05:43] And now we're seeing more citizen developers, right?

[00:05:46] The smaller scale, you guys that listen to this podcast that are being incentivized to take part in the rebuilding of Canada's housing stock right here.

[00:05:58] So, Dan hit me with this first chart here, Mr. Chart.

[00:06:02] So I thought I'd get you going on this one.

[00:06:04] Yeah. So the heading above the chart says total housing starts in the six largest CMAs remain near an all time high over the last three years.

[00:06:14] Total new home construction in the six largest census metropolitan areas or CMAs measured by housing starts has stabilized around 140,000 units.

[00:06:25] Despite a relatively stable overall number in recent years, housing starts have shown different trends across markets and types of construction.

[00:06:35] In 2023, housing starts in these six CMAs dipped by just a half a percentage point or 50 basis points if I'm putting my monocle and top hat on.

[00:06:44] Wow. You really know what you're talking about.

[00:06:46] Big smart guy over here compared to 2022 totaling just shy of 140,000 units.

[00:06:53] So really a nominal amount. We're talking like 137,000.

[00:06:56] 2,000 just over 2,000 of a difference.

[00:06:59] So apartments starts, apartments start surged by 7% reaching a record high of just under 99,000 units.

[00:07:10] However, this increase was offset by a decline in the construction of those ground oriented homes, the single detached ones that we were just talking about.

[00:07:19] Those starts dropped by 20%.

[00:07:21] So we're seeing a big uptick on one side of things, but a massive downside in others.

[00:07:27] Yeah. So probably worthwhile context here.

[00:07:29] Like a lot of this could be the way that houses are sold.

[00:07:32] Right. So like if you buy a detached house, it's usually going to be built within one or two years of you purchasing it.

[00:07:37] If you buy a condo, it would end up being built within six years.

[00:07:41] Right. Because it takes a long time to build a condo.

[00:07:43] Like just, you know, you can build a house and I don't know.

[00:07:46] I mean, really if you put a whole crew on building a house, you can get it done in a couple of months.

[00:07:50] Honestly. Right.

[00:07:52] Whereas we haven't figured out how to do it.

[00:07:53] No matter how hard you try, you cannot build it in six months.

[00:07:58] And so what happens is, you know, these condos pre-sale.

[00:08:00] So you look at the big bumps in the pre-sales right now, we're at record low pre-sales.

[00:08:05] We have 75% below the eight year average on pre-sales right now.

[00:08:09] And that came from my most recent report, but Alex Exelon on Twitter, who's awesome.

[00:08:15] Yeah, he is. I think his sub stack is going to be monetized soon.

[00:08:19] So yes, I think already is already just announced it last time I was on.

[00:08:22] Yeah. Worth the worth a couple bucks.

[00:08:24] I'll pay for it. I don't even care what it costs.

[00:08:26] But but yeah, I mean, if you're following Toronto Real Estate, he's a definitely

[00:08:29] worth worthwhile analyst to be following and paying for his stuff.

[00:08:33] But anyway, we had a we had in 2020, 2020, 2021.

[00:08:39] Those are two record years of pre-construction sales.

[00:08:42] And so you're just getting all of those condos that were sold during those years

[00:08:46] are just starting to be built and they're just starting to show up as.

[00:08:50] So last couple of years, we had record starts and record completions

[00:08:53] in the high rise space.

[00:08:54] But the ground based stuff is it

[00:08:59] it shuts off, the tap shuts off very quickly.

[00:09:02] So it's just more responsive to demand.

[00:09:04] Yeah. So just worth noting.

[00:09:05] No, 100% really kind of puts things in perspective, because again,

[00:09:08] sometimes the data can be misleading without those,

[00:09:12] you know, anecdotal explanations behind it.

[00:09:15] So appreciate as always.

[00:09:18] Now, again, going back to some of the main CMAs here,

[00:09:21] Toronto, Vancouver and Calgary saw growth in their total

[00:09:26] starts numbers with new apartment construction

[00:09:29] reaching record highs in these CMAs,

[00:09:32] conversely in Ottawa, Edmonton and Montreal.

[00:09:37] Yeah. Is that OK? Yeah.

[00:09:39] Apartment starts in 2023 weren't high enough

[00:09:43] to cause increases in total starts.

[00:09:46] Montreal stood out as the only market that recorded

[00:09:50] a significant decline across all of those housing types.

[00:09:54] The R is like you have to there's like a like a scratchy sounding

[00:09:57] I make with the R. Nora, my daughter, she shows me that all the time

[00:10:00] because she's given me French immersion.

[00:10:02] More more real. I can't do it.

[00:10:04] I'll practice it.

[00:10:05] I'll practice it and then I'll try it next time.

[00:10:08] There's everyone in everyone in Quebec listening right now

[00:10:10] is just shaking their head at me.

[00:10:11] I when you tried to pronounce that,

[00:10:13] Trolley via wall will be a like draw riveries.

[00:10:19] OK, that's the comic relief part of the show.

[00:10:22] Yeah, exactly. It's called I just give Nick all the French lines.

[00:10:25] So that's really unfortunate. It's not fair.

[00:10:27] That's good.

[00:10:28] CMHC used a measure that adjusts for population size

[00:10:33] to increase the depth of cross market comparisons.

[00:10:35] So you're not saying like, oh, you know,

[00:10:39] Toronto obviously had tons of starts.

[00:10:41] Well, yeah, because it's got tons of people.

[00:10:44] We talk about this a lot, right?

[00:10:45] Yeah. The addition even with interprovincial migration

[00:10:48] or migration or whatever it is, right?

[00:10:49] You have 100 people show up in Toronto, drop in the bucket,

[00:10:52] whereas you have 100 people show up in Moosejaw.

[00:10:56] You might notice. Yeah.

[00:10:57] And so what they use is starts per 1000 people.

[00:11:01] So although housing starts in Calgary weren't so it's basically per capita.

[00:11:04] Yeah. Although housing starts in Calgary weren't the highest

[00:11:10] among six CMHs when adjusted for population size,

[00:11:14] they were the highest at eleven point seven units per 1000 population.

[00:11:19] In Toronto, where the absolute number of starts was the highest

[00:11:23] among six CMHs starts per 1000 population were the second lowest.

[00:11:29] What do you make of that?

[00:11:30] Like, I mean, we're seeing Calgary rip, right?

[00:11:35] We've been saying this for a while.

[00:11:36] I just was having a conversation with someone else the other day

[00:11:39] and they were like, tell me how fired up they were about Calgary.

[00:11:42] And I was like, you're late.

[00:11:44] Probably. I mean, it does seem a little bit overbought.

[00:11:46] And we've been saying on the show for a while,

[00:11:48] like the last time we looked at this this report,

[00:11:51] it showed that Calgary like, well, the prairies are basically

[00:11:53] really good at building stuff and so they can respond to demand a lot quicker.

[00:11:58] And that shows on this graph, which, by the way, we have a YouTube

[00:12:02] for those of you.

[00:12:03] I think like our goal is really to get people off of YouTube

[00:12:05] onto the audio platform because I think we're pretty good at creating audio.

[00:12:08] But if you want a more audio companion,

[00:12:10] I'm actually screen sharing this report right now or say a more video companion.

[00:12:14] And what we're thinking about doing is actually maybe just like

[00:12:17] we'll start doing like a newsletter companion for each episode

[00:12:21] that it comes out with like a link.

[00:12:23] So if you want to, we'll put the link for the sub sub stack

[00:12:26] that we had is the same one as before, but just start driving more people there.

[00:12:30] If you want to give us your email and subscribe to that,

[00:12:32] we'll put that in the in the notes and I'll send one out with

[00:12:35] all the screenshots that we used in all this episode. Yeah.

[00:12:39] Anyway, what's the question now, Nick?

[00:12:41] Yeah, I mean, the question is, you know,

[00:12:44] in a world where it's so hard to get deals

[00:12:48] or projects to pencil out what type of product is being built.

[00:12:55] We know there's a huge push for purpose-built rental stock.

[00:12:59] That's purpose-built rentals, not perhaps blue ribbon, often confused.

[00:13:03] And and trust me, you know, Dan and I are on the on the front lines of this stuff.

[00:13:08] I've never seen so many deals fall apart on our side of the business

[00:13:12] when I've talked to other brokers, debt brokers,

[00:13:15] developers, multifamily owners,

[00:13:19] novice investors, veteran investors.

[00:13:23] The story is all the same.

[00:13:25] Rental construction shares exceeded historical averages across all CMAs.

[00:13:30] Well, there have been significant shifts in the types of dwellings being built.

[00:13:36] The changes in tenure were equally important.

[00:13:39] Purpose-built rental construction, the six CMAs combined

[00:13:42] to hit record levels in 2023, significantly boosting overall starts.

[00:13:47] Whereas Montreal and Edmonton experience declines.

[00:13:51] Nonetheless, residential or sorry, rental construction in Edmonton

[00:13:55] remained historically high in 2023.

[00:13:59] Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:14:00] I remember when I was recording the CMHC's rental market report,

[00:14:04] I did a recording of it for the course for realist.ca, which, by the way,

[00:14:08] we have a webinar coming up May 8th on just go realist.ca slash webinar,

[00:14:12] free webinar about show notes.

[00:14:14] Check it out in the show notes.

[00:14:15] You also get to join our free school group when you go

[00:14:19] and sign up for that webinar.

[00:14:20] It's a good community, interact with us, some other members, listeners on the show, etc.

[00:14:24] Anyway, when I was going through the rental market report,

[00:14:27] I noticed like Edmonton in Edmonton as a landlord,

[00:14:29] you're almost competing with homeownership.

[00:14:31] Like that would be your biggest competitor as a landlord.

[00:14:33] And so it kind of has made it like a more interesting tenant pool.

[00:14:37] But that seems to be changing a little bit as Edmonton becomes

[00:14:39] sufficiently unaffordable that like rental is like becoming a primary tenure type.

[00:14:43] Anyway, well, when I was when I was talking to that same person about Calgary,

[00:14:47] I said that, you know, where did everyone from Ontario and Vancouver go?

[00:14:51] They went to Calgary.

[00:14:52] Now people in Calgary that have been investing there like, OK,

[00:14:55] well, everyone from Toronto and Vancouver ruin this.

[00:14:57] So what do they do?

[00:14:58] They drive either to Red Deer or they keep going right up to Edmonton.

[00:15:01] Now, let me be very, very clear.

[00:15:03] This is not to say that you can't find

[00:15:05] there's probably people doing great deals in Edmonton right now.

[00:15:08] What's the great deals in Calgary now?

[00:15:09] We know many of them.

[00:15:11] We've taught some of them.

[00:15:11] We interact with some of them.

[00:15:12] We've helped some of them do deals.

[00:15:14] Not saying you can't find deals in Calgary.

[00:15:16] Let me be very clear.

[00:15:17] You can still find deals in Toronto.

[00:15:19] We know people doing that, too.

[00:15:20] But it's a lot harder to get them done.

[00:15:23] That's all we're getting at for sure.

[00:15:25] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:26] You just like I think it's just not they're not they're less opportune markets.

[00:15:30] Right. Like they really need to be careful and skilled.

[00:15:33] And when there's opportunities, there's more risk.

[00:15:35] Right. And there's more there's more work and there's more risk.

[00:15:37] Like you can cash flow any deal if you're going to make it your job.

[00:15:41] You know, I sure hope so.

[00:15:43] In recent years, purposeful rentals have constituted

[00:15:46] a larger share of apartments breaking ground, averaging 42 percent in 2023.

[00:15:50] In Edmonton. Yeah.

[00:15:52] In Edmonton, the share is 80 percent

[00:15:55] was the highest among the six biggest CMAs in Canada,

[00:15:58] significantly exceeding the past 10 year average in Toronto,

[00:16:01] where condominium apartments still dominate.

[00:16:03] The rental share increased to over a quarter,

[00:16:05] which is actually wild in Toronto because it is very tough

[00:16:07] to make a purposeful rental building of that scale.

[00:16:10] Pencil in the city of Toronto.

[00:16:11] It is also worth noting that like most condos, well, two fifths of condos

[00:16:15] end up in the rental housing stock anyway.

[00:16:18] Right. So which I actually thought it would be higher than that,

[00:16:20] but that's what the data says.

[00:16:23] So two in every five condos actually ends up being owned by an investor.

[00:16:27] So you've got 25 percent of all apartments

[00:16:30] being built as purpose built rental and then another almost 50 percent

[00:16:34] of the remaining. So it's probably greater than half.

[00:16:37] All right. I have to do some math on that.

[00:16:39] My math's probably off there.

[00:16:40] Anyway, a lot of it ends up in the rental stock.

[00:16:43] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:44] Well, through one channel or another. Exactly.

[00:16:46] And now we've got a interesting graphic here, Dan.

[00:16:50] Do you want to.

[00:16:52] Opine on this a little bit before we keep moving?

[00:16:56] Yes, it says rentals share of apartments starts in the last 10 years.

[00:17:00] Selected CMAs and I guess it's gone from 2014

[00:17:07] in in Vancouver to from 20, 24 percent to 37 percent.

[00:17:13] In Calgary from 10 percent to 54 percent.

[00:17:15] Crazy. Yeah.

[00:17:16] And Edmonton from 48 percent to 80 percent.

[00:17:19] Again, big, big numbers.

[00:17:21] Yeah. I like to see that in Toronto.

[00:17:23] Twelve to 26 percent in Ottawa, 28 to 49 percent.

[00:17:28] Just shy of 50 percent.

[00:17:29] And in Montreal, 26 percent to 71 percent.

[00:17:33] So you're seeing doubling, tripling more than five X in some places.

[00:17:38] So obviously apartment

[00:17:42] purposeful rental apartment are beginning to dominate that category.

[00:17:46] Seems like these

[00:17:48] CMHC lending programs like MLI select and then like the

[00:17:53] ACLP program that the government, the which used to be the RCFI.

[00:17:58] A lot of these direct lending programs are starting to work,

[00:18:01] which we talked a lot about

[00:18:03] in in past episodes when we talked about like the days of your where

[00:18:07] they were, you know, building hundreds of thousands of units

[00:18:10] in like the 70s with the program.

[00:18:13] We're starting to get back towards that.

[00:18:15] Like it seems like all the policy measures

[00:18:17] that the government is actually putting in right now are working.

[00:18:18] It just takes a really long time to create real estate.

[00:18:20] And that sucks for them because they need to win an election.

[00:18:23] Like I'm presuming their objective of doing a lot of this stuff

[00:18:25] is to try and get reelected likely because I think people are super happy

[00:18:29] with them right now. Yeah.

[00:18:30] So, you know, they got to figure out how to make real estate

[00:18:34] construction faster, which they think they've been doing.

[00:18:36] They've been talking about like industrialization, etc.

[00:18:39] I mean, Dan, you and I have read all that stuff.

[00:18:42] We've listened to all that stuff and, you know, put the rhetoric

[00:18:46] and the propaganda and even the politics aside, it really comes down to,

[00:18:49] you know, this is getting off script a little bit here,

[00:18:51] but it really comes down to a few things.

[00:18:52] It's taken.

[00:18:54] And this is the this is the thing that hits home for me.

[00:18:55] It's taken a long time to get this screwed up.

[00:18:59] And it's going to take a long time to get unscrewed

[00:19:02] from the situation we're in. Right.

[00:19:04] It's not like in every panel that we, you know, that you're on

[00:19:08] or that I'm on or every time one of us.

[00:19:11] The question that was comes up, OK, well, if you could do even with Greg

[00:19:13] or Craig, we were just at his book signing.

[00:19:15] We had him on the podcast a couple of months ago.

[00:19:17] What are the you know, if you could change one thing

[00:19:20] or if you could do one major thing, sweeping change

[00:19:22] that would affect the industry, what would it be?

[00:19:24] Well, the answer is there's no one thing.

[00:19:27] There is one thing, to be honest with you, but it comes

[00:19:29] with a very bad consequence.

[00:19:31] Like you could easily shut off the demand,

[00:19:33] like easily and be like, oh, Canadian population is not growing anymore.

[00:19:36] Right. And it's like, oh, wait, the Canadian population is not growing.

[00:19:39] OK, without shooting ourselves in the foot, we still need to walk.

[00:19:43] We're already limping here.

[00:19:44] But without shooting ourselves in the foot, there really isn't one thing.

[00:19:47] And what I'm getting at is that there there isn't one thing.

[00:19:50] There's 30 things right.

[00:19:51] And we've we've been covering them in episodes for almost two years now.

[00:19:55] Everything from cutting the red tape to bringing in more skilled labor

[00:19:59] to to changing all these little things in the mortgage industry.

[00:20:02] And that's going to be an episode that we just did.

[00:20:04] Right. It's going to be all those little incremental changes

[00:20:07] that we see in going back to the share of rentals,

[00:20:11] share of rental search in the last 10 years.

[00:20:12] You know, outside of Vancouver, which really only went up like 13, 14 percent.

[00:20:17] You're right. We're seeing a double, triple, quadrupling of.

[00:20:21] Calgary was more than quadruple.

[00:20:23] That's like that's awesome.

[00:20:24] Yeah. More than five X. More than five X.

[00:20:27] Right. So I mean, when Tuple.

[00:20:28] Yeah, it's awesome.

[00:20:30] Anyways, you know, one of the main issues that we are facing

[00:20:34] are rising construction costs.

[00:20:36] And the CMHC report here does a really good explanation

[00:20:40] of three factors that help explain

[00:20:43] rising construction costs and rising timelines associated

[00:20:48] with construction as well.

[00:20:49] The first one is I'll do the first two here, Dan,

[00:20:51] and you jump in for the third.

[00:20:52] So the first one is larger projects, right?

[00:20:55] Larger project sizes, projects getting bigger.

[00:20:58] Neighborhoods are getting more complex.

[00:21:01] And that's contributed to longer construction timeframes for apartments

[00:21:05] in specifically Toronto, where they're needed the most.

[00:21:09] Conversely, in Calgary and Edmonton,

[00:21:12] where smaller size stacked townhomes make up a larger share

[00:21:16] of the apartment market, completion times were shorter.

[00:21:20] Now we've literally done so many episodes on red tape,

[00:21:25] the permitting application, the zoning,

[00:21:28] just how long it takes to get some of this stuff done.

[00:21:31] And we know this has been a huge problem.

[00:21:34] Another issue are rising construction costs,

[00:21:37] growth in construction costs in the six largest CMAs

[00:21:41] slowed significantly in 2023 compared to 2022.

[00:21:45] Stats Canada building a construction price index

[00:21:49] decelerated from 18.6 percent in 2022 down to five point

[00:21:54] four percent in 2023.

[00:21:57] However, regional differences have gotten bigger

[00:22:01] with cost increases remaining high in some areas in Ottawa,

[00:22:05] Montreal, Calgary and Edmonton.

[00:22:07] The building construction price index increased by two percent to four percent.

[00:22:12] Meanwhile, in Toronto and Vancouver, the index in 2023 was still rising

[00:22:18] strongly by 13 and eight percent, respectively.

[00:22:21] So since 2022 and into 2023,

[00:22:26] higher costs have made some projects economically unfeasible.

[00:22:30] Again, Dan, no surprise to us.

[00:22:32] We deal with this in our personal professional lives

[00:22:35] when we're helping clients and looking for deals ourselves.

[00:22:39] And consequently, delays have happened at all stages of construction,

[00:22:42] including project launches, starts and completion.

[00:22:45] So just really a barrage of challenges for the construction industry

[00:22:51] to overcome. Dan hit me with the third and final challenge.

[00:22:55] I'm like I'm a DIYer for sure.

[00:22:59] Yeah, I've seen a couple of your DIY projects.

[00:23:01] I know. So I really pushed the limit recently because I DIY to skylight.

[00:23:05] So hopefully it doesn't come with a waterfall feature.

[00:23:11] But the thing was, it's like

[00:23:15] I got a quote for three skylights and it was like 12 grand

[00:23:18] and then couple like that.

[00:23:20] You know, I'm like, all right, I'm doing it myself, I guess.

[00:23:25] Well, I'll send you an invoice for my back pain after I fall off the roof.

[00:23:29] Anyway, I'm just like I thought, you know, I was talking to Joey,

[00:23:33] who's Joey's going to come on the show, by the way, contractor in the GTA

[00:23:36] greater golden horseshoe expert in the ADU space building garden suites.

[00:23:40] Why? He's not yet because nobody really is.

[00:23:42] People say they are.

[00:23:43] They've done like five, 10 projects because there's like 20 of them built.

[00:23:46] I did meet a guy at the Windsor

[00:23:49] meetup, which was awesome, by the way.

[00:23:51] Shout out to everyone that came out to the Windsor meetup.

[00:23:53] So much fun.

[00:23:53] I absolutely crushed Dan on the on the numbers.

[00:23:57] Actually, you know what?

[00:23:57] It's a it's a shame because a lot of people came from social media

[00:24:00] and there was one guy I wanted to give him a shout out.

[00:24:02] His name is Dan as well.

[00:24:03] There was two guys who came from the from listening to the show.

[00:24:06] One was a student and the other one is this this guy who works in the mines,

[00:24:10] not not in the mines, but he works in the mining industry up there.

[00:24:14] I think he's a millwright, actually.

[00:24:15] Dan showed it to Dan, came to visit at Sudbury.

[00:24:18] I wish I had a better more chance to talk to you.

[00:24:21] It is crazy how you just get immersed in conversations, right?

[00:24:23] And then things wrap up and you're like, oh, I guess I got a role.

[00:24:25] But Sudbury was good.

[00:24:27] It was it was one of those more intimate ones.

[00:24:28] I think we had like 20 something people at the Sudbury meetup.

[00:24:31] And anyway, I appreciate everyone who came from listening to the show,

[00:24:35] because I think a lot of people just came from social media.

[00:24:37] But for those of you who are listening right now,

[00:24:39] thanks for coming to the Sudbury meetup.

[00:24:41] Please continue to go to meetups, do deals, help grow the community.

[00:24:47] Sudbury sponsored by

[00:24:51] Zach, who runs a property management company up there.

[00:24:54] And Tristan, who's one of our he's our Sudbury expert

[00:24:57] on the real estate course as well.

[00:24:58] So real estate broker and property manager.

[00:25:00] Yeah, similar to the to Josh and Russell

[00:25:05] of Lalevich Real Estate, who do a killer job down there.

[00:25:07] And I just want to give a quick shout out to Savio,

[00:25:10] who actually realtor investor.

[00:25:13] Guy had a great story, moved from like lived in Oakville,

[00:25:16] did a bunch of work in Toronto, went down to Windsor to start investing.

[00:25:20] Realized that was really great.

[00:25:22] Hell of a lot better than his current environment.

[00:25:25] Guess what? Picked up the wife and kids moved down to Windsor

[00:25:29] and has since been crushing it down there.

[00:25:31] Guy has completed over 40 garden suites, 40 of them.

[00:25:36] So he might have the record.

[00:25:37] Oh, he might have.

[00:25:39] And that's why I told him, I was like, man, congratulations.

[00:25:40] That's more than I've heard anyone else.

[00:25:43] Honestly, it might be the most.

[00:25:44] Yeah, it really might be.

[00:25:45] And he's agreed to either come on the show or jump on

[00:25:49] realest.ca and talk about ADU.

[00:25:51] So cool.

[00:25:52] Yeah, Joey wants to do the same thing.

[00:25:54] More GTA oriented, obviously.

[00:25:56] So maybe we'll have to both on.

[00:25:57] They can argue about where the where the best market is to to do the

[00:26:03] they use anyway.

[00:26:06] OK, so the last piece on this

[00:26:09] report is worker shortage amid rising construction volumes.

[00:26:12] And actually, there's a chart growth in construction costs.

[00:26:14] Just it corresponds to what you were just talking about.

[00:26:17] But that'll be in the in the newsletter that we'll send out with this episode as well.

[00:26:20] Worker shortage amid rising construction volumes.

[00:26:23] The construction industry has been struggling with a growing labor

[00:26:27] shortage in recent years.

[00:26:29] And this is something actually, well, you know, Ryan Clark,

[00:26:31] who's a friend of the show.

[00:26:32] It's funny when I introduced him to the Sherwin guys,

[00:26:34] because we're thinking about doing this report about this labor shortage.

[00:26:38] And he was like, how do we get called friends of the show?

[00:26:40] And I was like, you are friends.

[00:26:42] The Sherwin Williams.

[00:26:43] Did we mention already this episode or is that last episode?

[00:26:45] I think it's the last one. But Sherwin Williams, they they

[00:26:49] they sponsor our meetups and they're advertising on the show.

[00:26:51] We really appreciate them.

[00:26:52] So make sure you show up to one of our meetups

[00:26:56] and get some free Sherwin Williams swag and talk to their reps.

[00:26:58] They have an awesome program for investors and for real estate professionals

[00:27:02] like realtors who paint houses a lot like when they're going to list them

[00:27:05] for sale. So for this way, if you are involved in real

[00:27:07] estate, you need paint.

[00:27:09] It is. Yeah.

[00:27:11] What is the highest ROI in that like investment

[00:27:14] renovation you can do is painting, right?

[00:27:17] Especially over the light switches, the outlets.

[00:27:19] And he's got to go paint over everything.

[00:27:21] This paint has great grab.

[00:27:23] It'll stick to literally anything.

[00:27:25] OK, let's get back on track.

[00:27:26] Tell me the third challenge is this worker shortage.

[00:27:30] So anyway, I would.

[00:27:32] The point is, you know, we're talking about

[00:27:34] maybe doing a report about this labor shortage.

[00:27:36] I think this is changing a little bit.

[00:27:37] Like you're starting to see that guy who we wanted to have on the show

[00:27:40] that did the tick tock, the framer member.

[00:27:42] And he was like, oh, there's no houses being framed.

[00:27:44] But that kind of goes back to the beginning of this where it's like,

[00:27:46] well, that's low rise work.

[00:27:47] So, yeah, that would suck for framers.

[00:27:49] But high rises are still like anyone I know is working in high rise.

[00:27:53] Guy work out with every day.

[00:27:54] He's he's there like they're working on slab and he's doing,

[00:27:59] you know, buildings that are like because the pipeline is full

[00:28:01] for three to four years with the high rise stuff.

[00:28:03] Right. So anybody on the concrete side is fine.

[00:28:06] Anybody who's doing ground based stuff is having a harder time.

[00:28:09] Well, I mean, we're seeing it right here in the data, right?

[00:28:11] I mean, 20 percent fall off in single detached. Right.

[00:28:14] That's where a lot of those like balloon frame stick frame guys are doing.

[00:28:18] You know, you don't need roof trusses on a 40 story building.

[00:28:22] Yeah. Right. Yeah.

[00:28:23] Yeah. I guess like there are guys on the way.

[00:28:25] I saw trust in the back of the truck.

[00:28:27] And I was like, trust me, that's great.

[00:28:30] Roof trust company.

[00:28:32] So any ready to speak that to go ahead?

[00:28:34] Just give me some credit.

[00:28:35] Trust me. Trust issues.

[00:28:38] Yeah. OK. Yeah.

[00:28:39] So let's move on to the construction costs, which.

[00:28:43] Yeah. So I mean, as you said, right, construction costs are a major issue.

[00:28:47] But but timeline time is is is really a big issue here, too.

[00:28:52] Right. I mean, if we could build houses a hell of a lot faster,

[00:28:55] we would likely get out of this issue that we find ourselves in.

[00:29:00] This little pickle called the housing crisis a lot faster as well.

[00:29:03] So can think about construction times from foundation to occupancy.

[00:29:08] Now, obviously that varies by housing type and location, depending on whether

[00:29:13] we've got a lot of different climates across this country.

[00:29:16] You have to account for people burning the houses down.

[00:29:18] Of course. Yeah. I mean, that should be a line item on the Gantt chart.

[00:29:22] Accidental fire.

[00:29:24] So the overall development process is more extensive

[00:29:28] and includes planning approvals and pre sale stages.

[00:29:33] Factors like a project size and complexity, as well as regulations

[00:29:37] in the cost and availability of labor and materials

[00:29:40] all influence the length of construction.

[00:29:44] The average construction time in the six largest CMAs

[00:29:48] has been on the rise over the last few years, reaching 18.8 months

[00:29:54] in 2023, the average construction time for a single detached home

[00:29:59] reached 10.7 months in 2023.

[00:30:03] In Toronto and Vancouver, this figure was 13.8 and 14.5 months, respectively.

[00:30:09] For apartment projects, the average construction time was 22.7 months

[00:30:14] with Toronto and Vancouver having the longest times at 33.3

[00:30:18] and 26.4 months, respectively.

[00:30:22] Dan, what do your chart eyes see?

[00:30:27] Yeah, so you pretty much just summarized all of it

[00:30:30] in the language from the report, but they don't break it up over product type.

[00:30:35] So I won't go through all the different cities again,

[00:30:38] but they have single detached, semi-detached row and apartment.

[00:30:43] And this goes back to what we were saying.

[00:30:45] So average construction time in months by dwelling type.

[00:30:48] And the 2023 average for single detached

[00:30:52] was 10.7 months

[00:30:56] for semi-detached 10.7 months for row house.

[00:31:00] 12.8 months.

[00:31:01] And for an apartment, 22.7 months.

[00:31:05] So double. Yeah, it's double what it takes to build a single detached house.

[00:31:09] More than double what it takes to build the single detached house

[00:31:14] or a semi-detached house.

[00:31:17] This is obviously why you're seeing that kind of like the again,

[00:31:21] I mentioned the ground based stuff is way more responsive.

[00:31:24] And these apartments don't aren't responding as quickly to

[00:31:27] to the changes in supply and demand, because they're still building stuff

[00:31:31] that sold in 2020, 2021 at record prices and just hoping people

[00:31:35] close on those units.

[00:31:36] Honestly, like that's kind of where we're at right now.

[00:31:38] Whereas, you know, if you're running a sales office

[00:31:41] and the demand just shuts off on a ground based, you're kind of just like,

[00:31:43] OK, I guess we're not building these houses or, you know,

[00:31:46] or like there was a there was a little bit of a period last year

[00:31:49] where there was a bunch of people who bought and the houses were under

[00:31:51] construction and they were incentivized to burn those houses down.

[00:31:55] Like, honestly, that was that was a crazy.

[00:31:58] Well, that was a crazy period of time.

[00:32:00] No, it was what was like six months and there was like there was like

[00:32:03] 30 like random fires.

[00:32:05] And it was like had a really good chart going of like

[00:32:08] I was going to try and do one where it was actually just like a flame,

[00:32:10] like a chart that was like, you know what I mean?

[00:32:13] Well, I think people are hopefully

[00:32:15] we were done burning these things.

[00:32:17] I know, but that was like a crazy period.

[00:32:18] Stop burning houses down.

[00:32:20] It's not cool.

[00:32:21] Not a good pre-construction investment strategy.

[00:32:23] It's not a good strategy.

[00:32:26] It's like it's a bird.

[00:32:28] It's the bird bird bird bird bird bird.

[00:32:34] OK, now let's kind of finish things off here

[00:32:37] with a bit of a positive note, which feels weird to say

[00:32:41] because we don't get to do that that often these days on the show.

[00:32:43] Unfortunately, the CMHC report finishes off now.

[00:32:47] Obviously, it's much longer than Dan and I have done here.

[00:32:50] So I encourage everyone to go check it out.

[00:32:52] As always, lots of great data in here.

[00:32:56] But they do finish it off by going through

[00:33:00] some of the major steps in the right direction that we've seen.

[00:33:04] And the first one is seed funding,

[00:33:07] which are interest free loans and non repayable contributions

[00:33:12] to develop and preserve housing projects

[00:33:15] that contain a minimum of five affordable units.

[00:33:18] So a big push for affordability here.

[00:33:21] And essentially, you like sounds like you get some some free money

[00:33:25] if you play by the rules. Dan, what is the next one?

[00:33:27] Because this one is pretty big.

[00:33:29] And I know you specifically have done a lot of talking about

[00:33:34] about this one. Yeah.

[00:33:35] So the RCFI, which has now been changed to the

[00:33:39] apartment construction loan program or ACLP,

[00:33:43] which sounds like kind of like the ACLU.

[00:33:45] It's you know what I mean?

[00:33:46] It's like those like vigilante lawyers in the US, I think, is what it is.

[00:33:50] Basically what it's turning into. Yeah.

[00:33:52] So the the largest program in the government's national

[00:33:56] housing strategy was is RCFI provides low cost loans.

[00:33:59] And this is where the government's directly lending to you.

[00:34:01] So MLI select is where they MLI just stands for mortgage loan insurance.

[00:34:05] MLI select is where they insure loans and the bank lends the money.

[00:34:09] And so the bank is able to reduce the rate because it's insured

[00:34:13] and there's no risk, less risk, let's say.

[00:34:16] RCFI is where the government directly would lend that to you.

[00:34:18] And so we haven't really done any of these deals because there's no broker channel for it.

[00:34:24] But really recent.

[00:34:25] Yeah, but we have been speaking with Nia, who is in our course.

[00:34:29] Shout out to Nia.

[00:34:29] He was one of the reviews we read on the thing.

[00:34:33] It was I was like one of my favorite guys actually is awesome.

[00:34:35] He's a great guy.

[00:34:36] Awesome. Awesome. Yeah.

[00:34:38] So I had a chat with him yesterday on the phone about this,

[00:34:41] because he was like, how do we so he's a grant writer

[00:34:43] and he's an amazing expert grant writer. Very, very cool.

[00:34:46] And so he was really attracted to the seed funding concept

[00:34:50] and reached out to me about it.

[00:34:51] And, you know, we want to do some work.

[00:34:54] He's in our course and he's doing a lot of like,

[00:34:56] you know, having a lot of discussions with other people in the course about this program.

[00:35:00] And I said, well, you're you know, your skill set would be so scalable

[00:35:03] to this RCFI or now ACLP program where you can, you know,

[00:35:07] provide almost advisory work to that, because he's done a lot of these

[00:35:10] CMHC grants and stuff like that.

[00:35:12] So we're looking into it to see if there's a way that we can help our listeners

[00:35:15] and almost build a little bit of like a channel to like connect them

[00:35:20] with those loans, because as we heard in the episode that we did with

[00:35:25] the housing minister, you know, there they just added

[00:35:29] 15 billion in funding to that.

[00:35:30] And there's a lot of new things that they're going to be doing.

[00:35:32] Like, as an example, the one where they mentioned that stood out to me was

[00:35:35] building houses on top of existing retail. Right.

[00:35:39] Like, you know, every strip mall just became a development opportunity.

[00:35:42] Right. Like, really.

[00:35:44] And you better believe I reached out to strip mall guy about it.

[00:35:46] Yes. Who I'm going to is thing on the 25th.

[00:35:49] The legend. I can't wait to hear about that.

[00:35:51] You'll have to do an episode on that.

[00:35:53] I'll interview you for that episode.

[00:35:55] Yeah, OK. That'd be cool. That'd be cool.

[00:35:57] So, yeah. So anything else in the additional 15 billion?

[00:36:01] I think that starts next year. Right.

[00:36:03] Goes 2025, 2026.

[00:36:05] The 15 billions for this year.

[00:36:07] Oh, it is. OK. Yeah.

[00:36:09] MOI, I think, is the next piece.

[00:36:10] Yeah. So the next to the next one that they're

[00:36:12] patting themselves on the back for, which I will allow Dan

[00:36:16] briefly touching it mortgage loan insurance.

[00:36:18] If you listen to the show, you've heard it come up once or twice.

[00:36:22] This is what we help developers achieve at Lambank as well,

[00:36:25] which is our debt brokerage.

[00:36:27] The new multi unit mortgage loan insurance program

[00:36:32] from CMHC was introduced back in March of 2022.

[00:36:34] And it uses a point system to offer

[00:36:37] insurance incentives based on three categories,

[00:36:40] affordability, energy efficiency and access ability.

[00:36:45] The incentives are available for new rental construction,

[00:36:49] also available on Taka.

[00:36:50] And if you want more information on that, please reach out.

[00:36:54] It is harder to qualify than a lot of people think.

[00:36:57] But I think we just had a deal fall through.

[00:36:59] We literally just coming.

[00:37:00] Yeah, we've actually had two deals.

[00:37:02] Marginal tight with with people that you would not expect.

[00:37:06] The deals to fall through.

[00:37:07] Well, a lot of it's just like the number.

[00:37:09] It's not it's not really the borrowers.

[00:37:10] Like, it's just the numbers of the deals like and, you know,

[00:37:12] bond yields just rallied again yesterday.

[00:37:14] It's like and Minister Fraser, actually, I was surprised

[00:37:17] that he really understood that not not like that.

[00:37:20] It surprised me, but it was just like it was refreshing to see

[00:37:23] how well he understood this in depth where he's like,

[00:37:26] it's a problem if people are applying for something

[00:37:28] and they don't know what the rate is going to be in six months.

[00:37:31] Like, that's the biggest challenge.

[00:37:33] Because if you're an increasing rate environment,

[00:37:35] that's going to present.

[00:37:36] What if I told you I'll buy your house, but I'm not I'll pay you the price.

[00:37:40] Right. Six months from now, you'd be like, you know, well,

[00:37:44] think about price differences in the last couple of years

[00:37:46] that we've seen the volatility and in, you know, even just a quarter.

[00:37:50] Right. It doesn't make sense.

[00:37:51] Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:52] So the last piece to kind of supercharge that piece is that they issued

[00:37:56] the Canada mortgage bonds, which is basically

[00:38:00] CMHC guaranteed bonds are sold to investors

[00:38:02] to generate funds for residential mortgage financing.

[00:38:04] In September, twenty, twenty three, the annual limit for CNB's

[00:38:08] was increased from 40 billion to 60 billion.

[00:38:10] This new measure is expected to get up to 30,000 more rental

[00:38:13] apartments built per year. It probably will do that.

[00:38:15] It probably will.

[00:38:17] But to me, I do think that this comes as a consequence.

[00:38:19] And we're going to see this in the budget that comes out today.

[00:38:21] We're recording this episode April 16th.

[00:38:22] It's going to come out quite a bit after that.

[00:38:24] But there's a high cost to doing that because they're going to be bought.

[00:38:27] The government is buying all of those bonds to keep rates down.

[00:38:30] It's functionally like a yield yield curve control on Canada mortgage bonds.

[00:38:34] Which keeps insured mortgage rates low, which is necessary

[00:38:37] to solve the housing crisis. But it's a it's a it's a big cost.

[00:38:40] Like it's not cheap to just buy a bunch of well,

[00:38:44] X billion dollars worth of bonds.

[00:38:46] I think that they're the so their annual issuance is 60 billion now.

[00:38:50] And they're going to be buying 50 percent of those.

[00:38:52] Minimum 50 percent. So 30 billion.

[00:38:54] And we recently did an episode.

[00:38:56] No, to be fair. Yeah, we did do an episode on this.

[00:38:58] And to be honest, I got something.

[00:38:59] I think your friend who was a bond trader made some comments on it.

[00:39:02] So one of the things that I didn't.

[00:39:03] That's right. No, Mira Ryan. I know you're a listener.

[00:39:05] Thanks for always listening and providing your very valuable,

[00:39:08] complicated insights. Yeah.

[00:39:10] So I'm a trader in London, England and ex-Canadian.

[00:39:13] What watches the Canadian economy closely and always has some really

[00:39:16] interesting things to say.

[00:39:17] Yeah. So one of the things that I missed was that they are going to be

[00:39:21] technically revenue generating what they're doing.

[00:39:23] It is it's probably also like I think that probably by design,

[00:39:27] it is going to come with a little bit of that yield curve control elements.

[00:39:31] So for them to artificially suppress those insured interest rates

[00:39:34] because they want to try and floor the housing economy

[00:39:37] or the housing market. Sorry.

[00:39:38] But technically, the government of Canada can sell bonds at whatever,

[00:39:42] like let's say three and a half basis points.

[00:39:44] I think the Canada bond yields getting close to four.

[00:39:46] But and so they can they can raise money like that's like them

[00:39:49] taking a mortgage rate.

[00:39:50] So they get their mortgage rate at four percent.

[00:39:52] And then they issue these C.M.B.s or they buy these C.M.B.s at four and a half.

[00:39:58] And so technically it's like a carry trade.

[00:39:59] It'd be like taking a HELOC at five percent or taking a HELOC at four percent,

[00:40:03] let's say, and lending that money out at four and a half percent.

[00:40:07] Now you're talking.

[00:40:08] Yeah, so they are. So it's technically it's funny, though,

[00:40:11] because I read all of the stuff like because the Bank of Canada

[00:40:13] did a consultation on this and the government did a consultation on this

[00:40:16] because remember, they were going to can this program.

[00:40:18] They were going to stop issuing Canada mortgage bonds.

[00:40:20] And they and quite the turnaround.

[00:40:22] Well, yeah, yeah.

[00:40:24] Well, it would have just been catastrophic for housing supply.

[00:40:28] And now now they've turned it into a revenue generating tool.

[00:40:31] Basically, the bank, the banking industry convinced them

[00:40:33] that this was a good idea. And they're not wrong, honestly.

[00:40:35] Like I'm not saying there's a bad thing.

[00:40:37] It's just very expensive.

[00:40:38] And we have a government that can't really afford to do expensive things right now.

[00:40:42] That's all I'm saying.

[00:40:42] It's been an expensive couple terms.

[00:40:44] Yeah, let's see if they let's see if they hit the the wealth tax today,

[00:40:48] because that's what I heard the big the big reveal in the budget is going to be.

[00:40:51] Oh, geez. And we'll do a full episode on on that at some point.

[00:40:56] How to accumulate enough wealth so that you get to the wealth tax.

[00:40:59] Yeah, I want to know that one final thing.

[00:41:02] And then we'll get out of here.

[00:41:03] GST exemption in September twenty twenty three,

[00:41:05] the federal government committed to removing the goods and services

[00:41:09] tax on all new qualifying rental housing construction.

[00:41:13] So we have seen steps in the right direction.

[00:41:17] We have seen a needle being moved, you know, whatever other analogy

[00:41:23] you want to put in there for little amounts of progress.

[00:41:26] We've seen it and I'm here for it.

[00:41:30] Have a very long way to go because we are in a pretty bad situation.

[00:41:36] But with more of this, hopefully more good things will come.

[00:41:44] Anything else before we get out of here, Dan?

[00:41:45] No, I haven't done a video walkthrough on this report,

[00:41:49] but I likely will for the for the realist dot C.A. community.

[00:41:52] So if you if you want, what I've been doing lately is

[00:41:56] I've just been putting like basically like 50 percent of the video

[00:41:59] like reports that I do on YouTube.

[00:42:01] So if you want to see like kind of the first half of it, you can.

[00:42:04] It'll be public and then I'll do the remaining half

[00:42:07] like inside of our realist dot C.A. community.

[00:42:09] That's sort of like a thank you for all the people who have joined that.

[00:42:12] Yeah, just a little bit of that exclusive content, right?

[00:42:14] You get exclusive content in there

[00:42:16] and you get the ability to network with everybody.

[00:42:18] There's talk to us about that.

[00:42:20] We have group coaching, mastermind sessions, deal workshops.

[00:42:24] Yeah, we're connecting people like, you know, we have like a listener,

[00:42:27] Dane, who's like a beauty and he's been connecting with with Nia

[00:42:32] about like different funds grant rating as for.

[00:42:34] Yeah, I think it was like there's a black entrepreneurs fund that CMHC has

[00:42:38] that Nia and Dane are like doing work over.

[00:42:41] Like there's so many opportunities that like we can't even see all of them.

[00:42:43] And that's why we're part of the community too.

[00:42:45] Yeah, honestly, like this.

[00:42:46] So yeah, really cool.

[00:42:48] Check it out realist dot C.A.

[00:42:49] We're having a free webinar coming up as well.

[00:42:51] Realist dot C.A. slash webinar.

[00:42:53] It'll be on May 8th, May 8th.

[00:42:54] Yeah. So I think this comes out before that.

[00:42:57] So hopefully.

[00:42:58] And if it doesn't guess what, that's that's still going to be available

[00:43:02] afterwards for realist members.

[00:43:05] So go ahead and check that out.

[00:43:06] Yeah. And we're going to do webinars on a monthly basis.

[00:43:08] So if there's a topic that you want us to do a webinar on,

[00:43:12] just reach out, reach out, request, slide in one of our DMS,

[00:43:15] hit the show email or join the group and start posting in there

[00:43:19] and say, hey, that's what I want to see next.

[00:43:20] Yeah. Thank you so much for listening.

[00:43:22] As always, all the best and we will see you soon.

[00:43:50] Daniel Foch is a real estate broker licensed with Rare Real Estate,

[00:43:54] a member of the Canadian Real Estate Association,

[00:43:57] the Toronto Real Estate Board and the Ontario Real Estate Association.