The Billionaires Plan To Solve The Housing Crisis

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Canadian Real Estate Investor, where hosts Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate

[00:00:06] the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio.

[00:00:13] You're probably sick and tired of hearing about this housing crisis we have here in

[00:00:19] Canada.

[00:00:20] Not enough homes, not enough labor, too much demand, spaces are getting smaller and

[00:00:26] on top of that it's all so damn expensive.

[00:00:31] It turns out Canada is not alone in its housing crisis or battle against rising prices and

[00:00:38] rates that's happening in many different parts of the world seems to be a very common

[00:00:41] theme in the western world including the United States.

[00:00:44] So Dan, let's take a quick trip.

[00:00:46] We're going to be doing a lot of traveling in this episode by the way.

[00:00:49] A lot of fields trip.

[00:00:50] We're going to go on a... the first trip we're going to do is back to 1985 in

[00:00:56] America where the median household income was around $25,000 and the average house

[00:01:02] was around $85,000 for the baby boomer generation.

[00:01:05] Whereas today the millennial and other generations are making about $75,000 a year and the

[00:01:13] average home price is almost $500,000.

[00:01:16] Do you notice a little difference there?

[00:01:19] Yeah, I would say maybe money went down in value during that period of time.

[00:01:23] Something happened.

[00:01:25] This housing crisis in America is a mixture of very hard and very large problems to solve.

[00:01:33] Nationally there is a shortage of more than 7 million affordable homes for 10.8 million

[00:01:40] plus extremely low income American families.

[00:01:44] But it's not just the almost 11 million low income families that are hurting.

[00:01:48] It is almost all Americans feeling the effects of the cost of housing, even the

[00:01:53] ultra wealthy ones.

[00:01:54] So this story starts off about how two very different groups of people were affected by

[00:02:00] the housing crisis and a wild idea to solve it.

[00:02:05] We look at a billionaire who is backed by some of the world's super rich, who has

[00:02:11] a crazy idea on how to solve the housing crisis.

[00:02:14] Well, the housing crisis that he knows anyways.

[00:02:18] So we look at this big idea and a few other similar attempts to execute something

[00:02:24] like this from around the world.

[00:02:26] We will also discuss to see if it could help us solve our own housing crisis here

[00:02:32] on Canadian soil, which is by many metrics among the worst in the world, I think,

[00:02:37] except for Portugal, which we mentioned on another recent episode.

[00:02:40] Yes, where you're now a celebrity.

[00:02:43] Apparently, yeah.

[00:02:44] So again, yeah, we look at this big idea, but this isn't the first attempt

[00:02:48] at a feat of this nature.

[00:02:50] Egypt, then pyramids, the Nile River, all that good stuff where the major city Cairo

[00:02:56] has 22 million people also has major housing challenges.

[00:03:00] And that's why their government, along with private partners, is building an

[00:03:03] entirely new capital city or at least trying to.

[00:03:08] Yeah.

[00:03:08] And China as well has built more than a few cities out of thin air.

[00:03:12] So there's lots to get into.

[00:03:13] This is a fascinating episode.

[00:03:14] But before we get into the show, as is tradition, let's read a very quick

[00:03:18] review as a thank you to one of our amazing listeners.

[00:03:21] This comes from Side Hustle Coal, five stars.

[00:03:24] The Canadian Real Estate Investor podcast is not just a fountain of knowledge.

[00:03:27] It's a roadmap to realizing your property investment dreams in the Canadian market

[00:03:31] hosted by seasoned investors with a keen eye for opportunity.

[00:03:34] Each episode is like a master class in navigating the nuances of Canadian real estate.

[00:03:39] Throughout the podcast, listeners are treated to a treasure trove of insights

[00:03:42] from the latest market trends to tried and tested investment strategies

[00:03:47] tailored to the Canadian landscape.

[00:03:49] But what truly sets this podcast apart is its ability to inspire action.

[00:03:53] As you immerse yourself in the knowledge of successful investors and absorb the

[00:03:57] practical wisdom shared by Nick and Dan, you'll find yourself not just learning but

[00:04:01] envisioning the possibilities for your own journey.

[00:04:03] The idea of building your eight plex isn't just a dream.

[00:04:06] It's a tangible goal waiting to be realized by me.

[00:04:09] By the time you reach the end of this episode, you'll feel empowered, equipped

[00:04:12] with knowledge, confidence and inspiration needed to take that crucial next step.

[00:04:16] Whether you're just starting out or looking to expand your portfolio,

[00:04:19] the Canadian Real Estate Investor is the ultimate companion on your path to property success.

[00:04:24] So go ahead, let the insights from this podcast fuel your ambition

[00:04:27] and it guided me towards building my eight plex.

[00:04:30] Thanks Nick and Dan.

[00:04:32] Much love Side Hustle Coal.

[00:04:34] I put in the much love part there but that was a good review.

[00:04:38] That was a beefy review.

[00:04:38] I feel like that was like website copy material right there.

[00:04:42] We didn't write that by the way.

[00:04:46] We have never written one of our own reviews.

[00:04:48] I did urge my father to write us one and might have helped him on that.

[00:04:53] But man, reviews like this.

[00:04:54] Did we determine if your dad was a...

[00:04:56] Trans-San-Frank?

[00:04:58] I haven't had the chance to ask him but I have my suspicions.

[00:05:03] Coal, Side Hustle Coal, what wonderful, wonderful words.

[00:05:08] Yeah.

[00:05:08] I mean look, we put a lot of effort into the show.

[00:05:10] You're thanking us.

[00:05:12] You're very welcome Side Hustle Coal.

[00:05:14] And reading things like this really makes it worthwhile, right?

[00:05:20] So if you're a fan of the show, let us know.

[00:05:22] Leave us a review.

[00:05:23] Give us a pat on the back.

[00:05:24] It really means a lot.

[00:05:25] We will make an effort to read it on the show honestly.

[00:05:27] We take a pat on the back.

[00:05:28] Yeah, we do.

[00:05:30] Okay.

[00:05:31] Now without further ado,

[00:05:33] let's get into the first part of our story here.

[00:05:36] Our story begins in California with a young entrepreneur named Yan.

[00:05:43] Now 36-year-old Yan Shrammick,

[00:05:47] he was a trader at Goldman Sachs for some time.

[00:05:49] He then went off and started a bunch of different companies.

[00:05:53] And now he wants to build a city.

[00:05:57] He's currently the founder and CEO of Flannery Associates.

[00:06:02] And since 2017, with the help of other billionaires,

[00:06:06] to name a few, Lauren Powell Jobs.

[00:06:08] Yes, that's Steve Jobs.

[00:06:10] Yeah, you know that Steve Jobs of Apple.

[00:06:13] That's his widow worth a cool 13 billion.

[00:06:17] Reid Hoffman, co-founder of LinkedIn,

[00:06:19] worth 2.5 billion.

[00:06:20] Legendary venture capitalist and founder Mark Andreessen,

[00:06:25] whose net worth is almost 2 billion.

[00:06:28] Michael Moritz, another legendary Silicon Valley venture capitalist

[00:06:31] worth over 6 billion and a few other one percenters.

[00:06:35] So again, all of those people teamed up with Yan since 2017.

[00:06:40] And they have been secretly buying agricultural land

[00:06:44] accumulating between 50 and 60,000 acres

[00:06:47] to the tune of almost a billion dollars.

[00:06:50] I believe they spent over $900 million.

[00:06:52] And no, Yan wasn't sharing this rapid and aggressive

[00:06:57] land acquisition strategy with many people.

[00:07:01] So the group started these land purchases early in 2018.

[00:07:06] And for years, all the locals were wondering who are these people

[00:07:09] and why are they buying all of this land?

[00:07:12] Because all that you could really find out about them

[00:07:14] was the name of the company that they had established in Delaware,

[00:07:16] which is actually not California forever.

[00:07:20] It's a company called Flannery Associates LLC,

[00:07:23] very nondescript obviously.

[00:07:24] And Delaware companies don't have to disclose the other investors.

[00:07:28] We talk a lot on the show about how we want this beneficial ownership registry in Canada

[00:07:32] who benefits from the ownership of these corporations.

[00:07:35] Delaware obviously is one of the ways that people circumvent

[00:07:37] that beneficial ownership disclosure in the US.

[00:07:40] So no one really knew who was behind it until this past August.

[00:07:45] Yeah, so let's pause for a second there, Dan,

[00:07:47] and explain why Delaware plays an interesting role in this story,

[00:07:51] but also in many other stories where wealth secrecy and privacy overlap.

[00:07:59] So what is 68% of Fortune 500 companies

[00:08:03] and 93% of all US-based initial public offerings or IPOs have in common?

[00:08:09] They are all registered in Delaware.

[00:08:11] Okay, wow.

[00:08:12] And in 2022, Delaware saw an additional 250,000 new businesses register in the state,

[00:08:22] pushing the total number of businesses to over 1.6 million.

[00:08:28] Delaware has become internationally recognized as a corporate paradise in his home

[00:08:32] to famous firms such as Amazon, Google, Tesla,

[00:08:36] Walmart, American Express, Disney, and many, many more.

[00:08:40] As the second smallest state by size and one of the least populous,

[00:08:46] it may seem odd that Delaware has become this business mecca,

[00:08:52] but since the early 1900s,

[00:08:54] the state has been incentivizing businesses to stay with their lenient tax policies,

[00:09:00] reduce restrictions, simplify corporate laws.

[00:09:04] The key benefits to incorporating Delaware are tax benefits,

[00:09:09] privacy, simplified structure, and overall expediency in getting things done.

[00:09:18] So let's talk on that privacy piece a little bit here.

[00:09:20] As with registering a business in most states,

[00:09:23] companies must assign a registered agent who maintains a physical address

[00:09:28] to be the official address and to receive mail and collect paperwork.

[00:09:31] Unlike most states, however, in Delaware,

[00:09:33] the registered agent is the only name that must be disclosed

[00:09:36] in an association with the company.

[00:09:38] Other officers and directors are not required to disclose their names,

[00:09:41] allowing an extra degree of anonymity.

[00:09:44] Because of this lack of reporting, officers, directors, and shareholders

[00:09:47] are also not required to maintain residency in Delaware.

[00:09:51] So long story short there, Flannery Associates,

[00:09:55] remember Yan, all the billionaires, Flannery Associates,

[00:09:58] they were just one of hundreds of thousands of companies that registered in Delaware

[00:10:04] that could operate in relative ambiguity.

[00:10:08] That's exactly what they wanted to do until they couldn't anymore

[00:10:11] because the locals got wise to the plan.

[00:10:13] Many of these locals initially feared it might be a Chinese government plot

[00:10:16] to try to set up shop near Travis Air Force Base.

[00:10:20] That's how conspiratorial things were getting.

[00:10:23] You're a couple farmers getting bought up by a mysterious company.

[00:10:28] You probably start to talk, right?

[00:10:32] Now, as the New York Times reporter, Connor Doherty,

[00:10:36] who helped break the story found out,

[00:10:38] the truth was actually even stranger than those conspiratorial rumors.

[00:10:44] Yeah, and within hours of Daughtery, I think that's Daughtery,

[00:10:48] Daughtery, I don't know, Doherty, Doherty's big scoop.

[00:10:51] I don't know if your last name is that.

[00:10:53] Let us know how do you say it.

[00:10:54] We apologize, Connor.

[00:10:54] You know what we're trying to say.

[00:10:56] The mysterious company launched a website

[00:10:59] and publicly identified itself as California Forever,

[00:11:02] an ambitious plan to build a brand new kind of city

[00:11:06] for as many as 400,000 people.

[00:11:10] So there's a lot of people.

[00:11:11] Couple people.

[00:11:11] Yes, one or two.

[00:11:13] So basically, Flannery Associates LLC operated in the shadows

[00:11:18] for years acquiring all this land

[00:11:21] and paying handsomely for it, usually well above market value,

[00:11:25] which was also suspicious to a lot of these farmers

[00:11:28] who were selling for much over market land,

[00:11:30] thinking that someone else would likely come and start farming it

[00:11:34] or use it for some kind of thing.

[00:11:36] But they just sat on it.

[00:11:38] So locals started to talk and eventually started to do some digging.

[00:11:41] And then the investigative journalists got involved.

[00:11:44] And within hours of the discovery of who is actually behind this company,

[00:11:50] they had completely rebranded, had a website and a new name

[00:11:53] and started to advertise their plan to build this entirely new utopian city

[00:11:58] in California named, fittingly, California Forever.

[00:12:02] Remember Jan, the 36-year-old entrepreneur behind this whole thing?

[00:12:07] He started to go on a campaign trail to convince the general public

[00:12:10] that his mission to build a new city was a good one.

[00:12:14] Here's some quotes from Jan.

[00:12:15] There's this movement in California where I think people have started

[00:12:20] to say and realize the current system just isn't working.

[00:12:23] Sounds very familiar to Canada right now.

[00:12:26] That system includes a housing crisis in the state,

[00:12:29] making it hard for most people to become homeowners.

[00:12:32] And he hopes to change that.

[00:12:34] He said we used to build about 220,000 homes in California

[00:12:39] back in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

[00:12:40] Sounds familiar again, right?

[00:12:42] And today we build half of that and the population has doubled.

[00:12:45] You are right, Dan.

[00:12:46] There is tones, resounding tones of familiarity

[00:12:51] in exactly what California and Jan are trying to do.

[00:12:56] Canada went through a big building phase after World War II

[00:13:01] that lasted kind of started in the 50s and went all the way to the 70s.

[00:13:04] And we've talked about that with just all the things from the

[00:13:07] strawberry box homes all the way to the Merb program.

[00:13:12] But essentially, we stopped building enough to meet that demand

[00:13:16] and over the last several decades with the lack of supply

[00:13:20] and drastic increase in demand, we have found ourselves in a similar position.

[00:13:26] And although the new city seems to be moving forward

[00:13:30] and it's not without backlash from the locals and other groups

[00:13:32] who may have concerns, their primary one being affordability,

[00:13:36] it is going to cost so much money to build all of these.

[00:13:40] And all these business people are funding it,

[00:13:42] so it must be making them profit.

[00:13:44] And furthermore, will it actually solve the housing crisis in California

[00:13:48] and the San Francisco Bay Area or will it just move

[00:13:51] the wealthy tech workers to a new expensive spot?

[00:13:55] I guess to me, it would have to have like the same geography,

[00:13:59] like that geography of the Bay Area, like the mountains

[00:14:04] and the views of the ocean and all that.

[00:14:08] That's hard to replace, right?

[00:14:11] It's California, so it's still nice.

[00:14:13] If you look at it on a map, it's not so far away.

[00:14:17] I would encourage everyone to go do, if you find this episode interesting,

[00:14:20] go do a little bit of research on it.

[00:14:21] And I think it's just CaliforniaForever.com,

[00:14:23] which actually forwards now to EastSolanoPlan.com.

[00:14:27] Yeah, yeah. So it's in Solano County.

[00:14:30] So again, California Forever is now saying that they can secure

[00:14:34] at least 15,000 well-paying jobs within the next decade

[00:14:38] and some cool things, right?

[00:14:40] When you start to build an entirely new city,

[00:14:42] you've got a lot of options.

[00:14:43] They're saying residents could decide to have a garage,

[00:14:46] an ADU, an accessory dwelling unit in their backyard

[00:14:49] or they can even opt for more open space.

[00:14:51] So I mean, I think that part is at least kind of cool.

[00:14:55] Yeah, definitely.

[00:14:56] And I guess it's up to each homeowner what they want to do.

[00:14:59] So do they want that private garden?

[00:15:01] Do they want to have it be grass?

[00:15:04] They all face onto an alley in the back,

[00:15:06] so similar to like the laneway,

[00:15:07] like the traditional laneway construction.

[00:15:10] In the alley, you can park your car,

[00:15:12] but it can also be where you put your ADU.

[00:15:14] So it could be an office as an example,

[00:15:16] if you want to be like kind of work from home.

[00:15:18] It could be where your mother lives,

[00:15:19] which is actually interestingly enough,

[00:15:21] we're going to have Joey on the show

[00:15:22] to talk about ADUs in Canada,

[00:15:24] but I've been following his sales process quite closely.

[00:15:26] Like I've been on quite a few of his sales calls

[00:15:28] just so like I really want to get an understanding

[00:15:30] for the rollout of one of these ADU businesses.

[00:15:33] And the most common type,

[00:15:35] there's two most common types.

[00:15:36] Number one is people bring in their family

[00:15:38] and to live with them in the backyard.

[00:15:41] And then number two is investors trying to cashflow.

[00:15:43] So interesting that it's almost more end users.

[00:15:46] Anyway, so you could just have a bigger backyard

[00:15:49] if you don't want to do the ADU as an example.

[00:15:51] So what they're showing in this example

[00:15:55] is a range of options

[00:15:56] and a very private intimate quiet backyards,

[00:15:59] but also opening up onto this alley for,

[00:16:02] I guess accessibility,

[00:16:03] but also to remove the traffic

[00:16:05] so that this kind of front of your house is more walkable.

[00:16:07] And like it is like leaning a little bit

[00:16:09] towards that kind of like 15 minute city lore, right?

[00:16:13] That a lot of people are getting

[00:16:14] a little up in arms about,

[00:16:16] but I mean, it's worth looking at a lot of these things.

[00:16:18] Yeah, exactly.

[00:16:20] And I mean, on that note,

[00:16:21] California forever head of planning Gabriel Metcalf said,

[00:16:25] we are really focused on enabling first time home ownership.

[00:16:31] We think there's a really big need for that.

[00:16:33] It's a very big market for us to try and serve.

[00:16:36] The Bay area has gotten so expensive.

[00:16:40] We think if we could find a way to provide home ownership

[00:16:43] at a more affordable price,

[00:16:46] it's going to be really popular.

[00:16:47] So with an estimated residential population of 400,000

[00:16:52] providing a wide variety of home types,

[00:16:55] including starter homes,

[00:16:57] Gabriel Metcalf and the California forever team

[00:17:00] are pretty fired up about this.

[00:17:02] Now, when I initially read about this story,

[00:17:06] Dan back in the Wall Street Journal,

[00:17:08] they made a fascinating comparison actually.

[00:17:10] All these tech billionaires and entrepreneurs

[00:17:12] who've made massive changes in the digital world

[00:17:16] and had huge impacts on the way that we interact online.

[00:17:20] Many of them haven't really made significant changes

[00:17:24] in the built environment.

[00:17:26] Yeah.

[00:17:27] And this one is an attempt at kind of more

[00:17:29] changing the built environment as they know it,

[00:17:31] implementing tech and planning into a new city.

[00:17:34] Yeah, exactly.

[00:17:35] They're going from URL to IRL.

[00:17:39] How long have you been waiting to use that one?

[00:17:40] Wow, we already busted out a couple of shows ago.

[00:17:42] Yeah, that was more organic.

[00:17:44] Thought it was pretty fitting for this one.

[00:17:46] It is a fascinating thing, right?

[00:17:47] Like the owners of or the guys that built Google

[00:17:52] or Facebook or take any of the main tech platforms

[00:17:55] that we're all so familiar with.

[00:17:57] Well, back in the day,

[00:17:58] those were the same kind of people

[00:17:59] that built the Empire State Building

[00:18:02] or the Great Wall of China.

[00:18:04] Or those were feats that you could look at and see

[00:18:07] in the built environment that were life-changing back then,

[00:18:11] right?

[00:18:11] Roads, aqueducts, everything.

[00:18:13] And now we have such a digital presence

[00:18:16] that I think a lot of...

[00:18:18] Anyways, the Wall Street Journal made this

[00:18:19] really fascinating kind of play for Ego

[00:18:22] that they want to...

[00:18:24] The Silicon Valley people want to be able to see

[00:18:27] some of the things that they've built.

[00:18:29] Anyways, from farmland to a bustling new tech hub

[00:18:33] would be a master plan to 15-minute city of the future.

[00:18:36] It's an ambitious plan,

[00:18:37] but it's not the first attempt at building

[00:18:40] an entirely new city that has happened.

[00:18:42] Dan, let's continue our journey

[00:18:46] and go from California all the way

[00:18:49] to the other side of the world in Cairo.

[00:18:52] So in an expansive desert 30 miles from Cairo, Egypt,

[00:18:55] a new city is rising already boasting

[00:18:57] the tallest tower in Africa

[00:18:58] and the biggest cathedral in the Middle East.

[00:19:01] The city is one of a series of President

[00:19:05] Abdel Fattah el-Sisi's grand mega projects

[00:19:09] intended to develop the country's economy.

[00:19:11] Cairo is densely populated with

[00:19:14] 50,000 residents per square mile

[00:19:17] compared to that some dense...

[00:19:19] What would be considered a dense city

[00:19:21] in North America like New York,

[00:19:23] which is 27,000 people per square mile

[00:19:27] or Miami where there's 13,000 people per square mile

[00:19:30] or even Toronto 10,000 people per square mile.

[00:19:32] So obviously an incredibly dense city in Cairo.

[00:19:36] Yeah, now when this project was first announced back in 2015,

[00:19:40] Egypt's new as yet unnamed capital city

[00:19:44] has been under construction for years

[00:19:45] at an estimated cost of more than $50 billion.

[00:19:50] Now it's being temporarily referred to

[00:19:52] as the new administrative capital.

[00:19:55] The massive development of just one, as you mentioned Dan,

[00:19:58] of several mega projects being built

[00:20:00] by the current government.

[00:20:02] The new city about 28 miles southeast of Cairo

[00:20:05] is planned for more than 6 million residents.

[00:20:08] So California forever is doing 400,000,

[00:20:11] Cairo is doing 6 million.

[00:20:14] Now the project largely operated

[00:20:16] by Egypt's administrative defense

[00:20:18] will consolidate and move government headquarters

[00:20:20] into a more controlled setting

[00:20:23] monitored by more than 6,000 surveillance cameras.

[00:20:26] So not only a smart city, but a very surveillanced,

[00:20:32] watched, what would that be?

[00:20:33] Surveilled.

[00:20:34] Surveilled, there we go, thank you for that.

[00:20:35] Surveilled city.

[00:20:37] It is already home to the tallest building in Africa,

[00:20:40] huge presence of palace, tons of ministry building schools,

[00:20:44] hospitals, mosques, churches with many more to come.

[00:20:47] And completion remains years away

[00:20:49] and the Egyptian government has gone deeply into debt,

[00:20:52] but some people have begun to move there,

[00:20:55] even though many Cairo residents,

[00:20:57] according to a Reuters study say that they can't afford

[00:21:02] to live in the new city and don't plan on moving there.

[00:21:06] It is funny because you mentioned the surveillance.

[00:21:09] So I'm going to bring us-

[00:21:10] I struggle mentioning it, but I did mention it.

[00:21:13] I'm going to bring us back to a Canadian example here,

[00:21:15] which was Sidewalk Toronto, the sidewalk labs at Keyside,

[00:21:22] it says Quayside, it looks like, but it's I think Keyside.

[00:21:26] Sidewalk Toronto is a canceled urban development project

[00:21:28] proposed by Sidewalk's lab at Keyside,

[00:21:31] a waterfront area in Toronto, Ontario, Canada.

[00:21:34] This project was first initiated by Waterfront Toronto

[00:21:36] in 2017 by issuing an RFP on the development.

[00:21:39] And it was Sidewalk is a subsidiary of Google,

[00:21:43] formerly its parent company, Alphabet Inc.

[00:21:45] And they issued the winning bid in 2017.

[00:21:48] There was a plan, the master innovation development plan

[00:21:52] created in 2019 through conversations with over 21,000

[00:21:56] Toronto residents and aimed to be an innovative reinvention

[00:21:59] of Toronto's neglected Eastern downtown waterfront.

[00:22:02] And it failed catastrophically.

[00:22:05] Unfortunate in my opinion.

[00:22:06] I don't know. It's tough to say.

[00:22:07] It got a lot of pushback for the surveillance.

[00:22:09] That's what really made me like-

[00:22:10] because it was supposed to be like the smart city.

[00:22:12] And I think people were kind of just like-

[00:22:13] I think in a post-COVID world,

[00:22:15] people are a lot more okay with stuff like that.

[00:22:17] I think it really changed the dynamic of the relationship

[00:22:22] between state and individual.

[00:22:24] And a camera between the two of them.

[00:22:26] Yeah. Yeah. No, it's very true, right?

[00:22:28] So Alphabet, Google announced cancellation

[00:22:31] of the project on May 7th, 2020.

[00:22:33] They aim to utilize technology to create a smart urban center

[00:22:36] that improves the quality of life of residents.

[00:22:38] Also using it as a testing ground, which is never-

[00:22:40] you know, it's like, nobody's like, oh yeah,

[00:22:43] I'm just going to go live in that testing ground.

[00:22:46] Yeah. For future urban design projects and technology,

[00:22:50] it got a lot of criticism.

[00:22:52] Data privacy being the leading one,

[00:22:54] which I just mentioned because there was like

[00:22:56] facial recognition cameras everywhere

[00:22:58] and robust data collection and whatever.

[00:23:00] I'm a data guy, so it's like it's whatever,

[00:23:01] but it shouldn't- well, it's not whatever.

[00:23:03] But I think that like there's a necessary amount of data.

[00:23:06] It helps to solve problems.

[00:23:07] But if it becomes intrusive,

[00:23:09] it's a little bit of an issue.

[00:23:11] And then they also- so they cited concerns by that.

[00:23:13] And then also the uncertainty of the economy after COVID,

[00:23:16] which I mean, to be honest,

[00:23:18] was probably the horrible decision on their part

[00:23:20] because they could have made a bunch of money by getting-

[00:23:27] like I think they got a billion dollar free land

[00:23:30] from the federal government.

[00:23:32] And what happened-

[00:23:34] Prime real estate.

[00:23:35] Literally May 7th, like right after that,

[00:23:37] prices of property values grew double digits

[00:23:41] for two or three years.

[00:23:42] So anyway, good work, Google.

[00:23:44] Maybe stay out of real estate.

[00:23:47] Stick to Silicon Valley, all right?

[00:23:48] Go back to California forever.

[00:23:49] Stick to searching stuff, okay?

[00:23:51] Back to Cairo because- anyway,

[00:23:54] I just had to bring it back to our native land.

[00:23:56] We need more Canadian.

[00:23:58] And this whole thing,

[00:23:59] everybody that's still with us on this journey here,

[00:24:01] this whole thing circles back to Canada.

[00:24:03] We got a couple of other places to go.

[00:24:05] We'll go visit them quickly.

[00:24:06] Are we going to do the one in like the-

[00:24:07] is it called The Crack?

[00:24:08] No, I said this a lot.

[00:24:09] What is it called?

[00:24:10] It comes up, but it's not called The Crack.

[00:24:13] That would be a whole-

[00:24:14] You're usually good at naming things, man.

[00:24:15] That's a bad brand name.

[00:24:16] No, it's sweet though, that thing,

[00:24:18] whatever it is called.

[00:24:19] The Line.

[00:24:19] Yeah, the Line.

[00:24:20] That's a way better name.

[00:24:21] Yeah, back to Cairo, okay.

[00:24:23] It is also not clear who will be able

[00:24:25] to live in the new capital once it's completed.

[00:24:27] So the housing units are being sold

[00:24:29] at very hefty prices.

[00:24:30] A two bedroom apartment in the new capital

[00:24:32] goes for about 50,000, which is a huge sum

[00:24:34] that would be out of reach for many in the country

[00:24:36] where the GDP per capita is about 3,000.

[00:24:40] It seems the new administrative capitals

[00:24:42] want to serve as yet another kind of like

[00:24:43] gated community for the rich,

[00:24:45] which you're starting to see kind of happening

[00:24:46] in a lot of these more-

[00:24:48] global disparity is really growing.

[00:24:50] And so it seems like they're really kind of doing this.

[00:24:53] Whether or not I think that's okay

[00:24:55] is a different story.

[00:24:57] Yeah, I mean, it seems like they've all decided it's okay.

[00:24:59] So they're making cities for rich people, I guess.

[00:25:01] I don't know.

[00:25:02] And it will do very little to meet the needs

[00:25:04] of Cairo's poor and underprivileged residents,

[00:25:06] except maybe by taking all of that demand out

[00:25:09] that city and you know what I mean?

[00:25:11] Yeah, so I mean, that's kind of the same thing

[00:25:13] that you're seeing the California forever thing,

[00:25:16] the Cairo thing, the locals and the general population

[00:25:19] at Cairo have the same concerns as the locals

[00:25:22] and kind of general population of Solano County,

[00:25:26] all the way across the world.

[00:25:27] That's where California forever is set to be built.

[00:25:30] So I mean, the question remains,

[00:25:32] will this actually solve anything?

[00:25:33] Will this just be, as you said, Dane,

[00:25:35] kind of a city for the rich?

[00:25:37] Is it all even worth it?

[00:25:39] And what about affordability,

[00:25:41] which is kind of where this whole thing started, isn't it?

[00:25:45] Yeah, I mean, I guess the question becomes like,

[00:25:47] if all these places on earth are dealing with this phenomenon,

[00:25:51] it's not unique, right?

[00:25:52] So there's this article from Forbes

[00:25:54] and they call it the era of compulsive new city building.

[00:25:58] So in their article, they talk about Songdo,

[00:26:02] a purpose-built smart city in South Korea.

[00:26:04] So everything about Songdo is artificial.

[00:26:06] It's built from scratch, city in a box

[00:26:08] that was purchased by the South Korean government for 40 billion.

[00:26:11] And it was erected like a pop-up tent over the past 15 years.

[00:26:15] Even the ground the city is built upon

[00:26:17] was nothing but soggy marshes.

[00:26:19] I mean, Toronto was kind of like that too, isn't it?

[00:26:20] Yeah, if you look back 100 years,

[00:26:23] the whole entire South core was like that.

[00:26:25] Imagine Vancouver would probably be kind of like that,

[00:26:27] like it was like an island.

[00:26:29] And remember we did that episode way back on land

[00:26:34] and you got to buy land, you can't make more of it.

[00:26:36] But actually you can because Singapore is literally growing

[00:26:40] every year, physically growing in size.

[00:26:42] They're just pumping sand into the ocean.

[00:26:45] So yeah, I mean, you can grow, I guess.

[00:26:47] They're making more land.

[00:26:48] Yeah.

[00:26:50] I guess whoever told you,

[00:26:51] when your dad told you they didn't make any land anymore,

[00:26:53] they were wrong.

[00:26:54] Dad?

[00:26:57] So I mean, that like soggy marshes leading out to the Yellow Sea,

[00:27:02] that was only half a generation ago, they say in the article.

[00:27:05] Right? So things change that quickly by them just,

[00:27:08] like you said, filling land in.

[00:27:10] But what is most striking about Songdo is that

[00:27:14] isn't that it's completely new city that built up

[00:27:16] a business base and 130,000 population

[00:27:19] in just a handful of years.

[00:27:21] What is it, Nick?

[00:27:22] Yeah, I mean, the sad thing is about a lot of these cities

[00:27:26] is that they're lonely.

[00:27:29] That seems to be, and we'll get more into that,

[00:27:31] but that seems to be one of these things.

[00:27:34] And this goes back to the human element of living in a city

[00:27:38] because there have literally been hundreds of entirely new cities

[00:27:42] that have been sprouting up across mostly the emerging nations

[00:27:46] we see kind of throughout Asia and the African continent

[00:27:50] since the early 2000s.

[00:27:52] Now, I'm going to ask for forgiveness

[00:27:54] as I try to pronounce a lot of these names.

[00:27:56] This is going to be fun.

[00:27:57] They are totally new dots on the map with names like

[00:28:04] Prityajah, Nahui, Gangbashi, Dompak and Krohogos.

[00:28:10] There is a forest city, a King Abdullah economic city,

[00:28:14] a blue city, a grace field city, an island,

[00:28:17] a new sea city, a port city, a waterfall city,

[00:28:21] and yes, even a robotic future city.

[00:28:24] In all, over 40 countries including Malaysia, Nigeria,

[00:28:28] China, Morocco, India, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Oman,

[00:28:33] Kazakhstan and Kenya have dumped billions of dollars

[00:28:36] into developing new cities from the ground up.

[00:28:39] Indonesia alone is busy at work constructing no less

[00:28:44] than 27 entirely new cities.

[00:28:48] And Dan, this is your favorite of them all.

[00:28:51] I think the craziest one of them all is,

[00:28:53] what was it again?

[00:28:54] The crack.

[00:28:55] I thought it was called the crack,

[00:28:56] but it's not apparently.

[00:28:58] The line which you have likely seen on Instagram

[00:29:03] or TikTok or in some form of social media.

[00:29:05] The line is that linear smart city under construction

[00:29:08] in Saudi Arabia in the Tabuk province,

[00:29:12] which is designed to have no cars,

[00:29:14] streets, carbon emissions.

[00:29:16] I believe the whole thing is powered by solar energy

[00:29:19] with massive essentially mirrored walls.

[00:29:22] Yeah, I think there's like mirrors to control for the sun

[00:29:25] because otherwise you wouldn't have sun on one side.

[00:29:31] I think it's fascinating especially because

[00:29:34] they're actually doing it.

[00:29:36] Here we talk about the Google sidewalk lapse thing.

[00:29:38] We'll talk, we'll think about it for a couple of years.

[00:29:40] Put in a TARP.

[00:29:42] See how many committees we can get involved here.

[00:29:44] I don't know.

[00:29:45] It seems like it's just...

[00:29:47] I've said this jokingly quite a few times,

[00:29:49] but when you look at the productivity

[00:29:51] that you see in a lot of places on earth,

[00:29:54] save for America because they somehow take a year off

[00:29:57] every four years to do democracy.

[00:30:01] But everybody's just hustling.

[00:30:02] Their economy is crushing it.

[00:30:04] But other than that, it seems like some of these

[00:30:06] more authoritarian areas seem to do pretty well.

[00:30:10] Because they don't have to ask anyone for permission.

[00:30:12] Yeah, I was going to say there's zero red tape

[00:30:14] in places like this.

[00:30:15] I guess when you quite literally pump money

[00:30:18] out of the ground nonstop,

[00:30:20] and you don't really have labor laws

[00:30:21] and all that good stuff,

[00:30:23] it becomes easy to build something as ridiculous

[00:30:26] as this mega project again called The Line

[00:30:28] slash The Crack.

[00:30:30] We're going for a rename on that one.

[00:30:32] Which started...

[00:30:32] The Crack is actually the name of a great hike

[00:30:36] up in Calarney.

[00:30:37] They named a couple things.

[00:30:40] 106 mile long city.

[00:30:43] Yes, you heard that long.

[00:30:44] And if you haven't seen any of the content on this,

[00:30:47] it's ample.

[00:30:47] Go find it.

[00:30:50] The ambitious plan is for 9 million people

[00:30:53] to live within 13 square miles.

[00:30:55] I guess it'd be 13 long miles instead of square miles.

[00:30:59] Bad joke.

[00:31:00] An area comparable to Burlington, Vermont,

[00:31:04] which is about 45,000 inhabitants live in that section.

[00:31:09] So from 9 million to 45,000.

[00:31:12] Yeah, I'm just on their website here right now.

[00:31:14] The line will eventually accommodate 9 million people

[00:31:18] and we'll be built on a footprint of just 34 square kilometers.

[00:31:22] This will mean a reduced infrastructure footprint

[00:31:24] creating never before seen efficiencies in city functions.

[00:31:27] The ideal climate all year round

[00:31:29] will ensure that residents can enjoy the surrounding nature.

[00:31:32] Residents will also have access to all daily essentials

[00:31:36] within a five minute walk.

[00:31:37] You talk about 15 minutes?

[00:31:38] 15 minute cities?

[00:31:40] Why?

[00:31:40] How about a five minute line?

[00:31:42] This is the craziest part.

[00:31:43] In addition to a high speed rail

[00:31:44] with an end to end transit of 20 minutes.

[00:31:46] It's so smart to make a linear city like that.

[00:31:50] When you're really thinking about it conceptually,

[00:31:51] all these people living in this giant line

[00:31:55] of mirrors and stuff,

[00:31:56] it does feel like a Black Mirror episode

[00:31:58] or something like that.

[00:31:59] It goes from utopian to dystopian pretty quickly.

[00:32:04] Dan, you seem to be a fan of it.

[00:32:06] You were mentioning you're casually looking for

[00:32:08] maybe a second property, a vacation home in Florida.

[00:32:11] Would you consider not Florida

[00:32:12] and go right to the crack maybe?

[00:32:14] Maybe, yeah.

[00:32:14] I would probably live in the line.

[00:32:16] Yeah.

[00:32:16] The only problem as a second home comparing this to Florida,

[00:32:19] Florida is just close.

[00:32:22] I can't fly to Saudi Arabia on a weekend.

[00:32:26] It's not comparable to driving to Miskoka.

[00:32:28] Fair enough.

[00:32:28] Flying to Florida is literally comparable

[00:32:30] to driving to Miskoka.

[00:32:31] We got to figure out jet technology

[00:32:35] before Dan buys a place in the crack.

[00:32:37] Didn't they say within the next little while

[00:32:40] or within the next couple of decades,

[00:32:41] supersonic flight will be a thing again?

[00:32:43] Again.

[00:32:44] Yeah, well, the Concorde.

[00:32:45] They've said the Concorde.

[00:32:47] Yes.

[00:32:47] Well, that would be fantastic.

[00:32:49] I'm still trying to figure out

[00:32:51] why no super rich person has made a Concorde private jet.

[00:32:55] Okay.

[00:32:55] For all the billionaires that listen to this show.

[00:32:56] Do you think you're super rich?

[00:32:58] Yeah.

[00:32:58] I don't know if they're banned maybe.

[00:33:00] I would love that.

[00:33:01] I mean, I was just in Europe.

[00:33:04] Once you're there, incredible.

[00:33:06] Brayden actually, our pod father, I think said it best.

[00:33:09] North America, specifically America,

[00:33:11] is the best place to make money.

[00:33:13] Europe is the best place to spend it.

[00:33:16] Man, it's incredible over there.

[00:33:17] But the flight, eight to 10 hours to get from here.

[00:33:21] No commuter flight.

[00:33:22] Yeah, you got to be going for like three weeks

[00:33:23] to make it worth your while.

[00:33:24] Yeah, which is exactly what I did.

[00:33:26] Anyway, Stan, let's get back on track.

[00:33:28] We're almost at the end of our journey.

[00:33:29] Yeah, so I was giving a glowing review

[00:33:31] of authoritarianism.

[00:33:33] Yeah.

[00:33:34] It was a great segue because on some estimates,

[00:33:37] that was a joke by the way.

[00:33:38] I don't know whether or not I don't live

[00:33:39] in an authoritarian country but I can just-

[00:33:41] Close.

[00:33:42] Yeah, who knows?

[00:33:44] It just seems to be productive in many respects.

[00:33:47] On some estimates, China has built more than 600 new cities

[00:33:52] since the establishment of the People's Republic in 1949.

[00:33:55] Some of these manufactured cities have been huge successes.

[00:34:01] Others, dismal failures where endlessly replicated towers

[00:34:04] sit empty or almost empty.

[00:34:05] Not a very good case for supply will solve

[00:34:08] all of your affordability issues

[00:34:09] because they have a bunch of empty towers

[00:34:11] yet Shenzhen saw 60% year over year price growth

[00:34:15] in one year, 2016, 15 I think.

[00:34:18] Yeah, you're right.

[00:34:19] They really went with the idea of build it

[00:34:22] and they will come but what if they don't come?

[00:34:27] It doesn't always work out like that

[00:34:28] and a recent report revealed that about 20%

[00:34:32] of the total urban housing properties in China

[00:34:35] around 65 million properties are completely vacant.

[00:34:41] So Dan, we took a trip.

[00:34:43] We started out in the beautiful farmlands

[00:34:45] of Southern California.

[00:34:48] We went to the deserts of Egypt then over to Asia

[00:34:51] and Africa in the Middle East where everyone

[00:34:53] is trying to solve the housing crisis

[00:34:55] and battle the affordability challenges they face

[00:35:00] by building these entirely new cities.

[00:35:04] Now, the question remains,

[00:35:07] is this actually a solution that people want?

[00:35:11] Yeah, I don't know.

[00:35:12] It's a good question and I think with Canada

[00:35:15] and our urban landscape,

[00:35:17] I mean there's a couple of kind of examples

[00:35:19] where it's not like a new city per se

[00:35:21] like the sidewalk labs.

[00:35:23] That land's gonna be developed.

[00:35:25] There's a plan now for the port lands

[00:35:26] which is basically these are all like

[00:35:27] these master planned communities.

[00:35:29] Like they end up being like 5,000 units or like-

[00:35:31] City within a city, right?

[00:35:32] City place, the well, even Liberty Village.

[00:35:34] Yeah, Vaughn Metro, Vaughn Metro.

[00:35:38] I mean and Vancouver is really an example

[00:35:40] because I think Surrey is gonna become bigger

[00:35:42] than Vancouver at some point, right?

[00:35:44] I mean Surrey and Burnaby.

[00:35:47] Burnaby, like gonna put the SkyTrain out there, boom.

[00:35:50] But those are kind of cities within

[00:35:54] the existing cities, right?

[00:35:55] What these people are talking about is literally like,

[00:35:57] hey, let's go find a plot of land somewhere

[00:35:59] and you know, make sure maybe there's highway access.

[00:36:03] Maybe there's easy to get services there

[00:36:05] all that kind of stuff.

[00:36:06] I think we're-

[00:36:06] This is a full new city.

[00:36:08] Yeah, I think we're answering that question live

[00:36:10] right now like that's kind of the vibe that I get, right?

[00:36:12] That we're at a point where like our generation

[00:36:15] for the first time ever has been dealing

[00:36:18] with an inflationary regime for like two years

[00:36:21] and actually inflation is 2.7% today in Canada,

[00:36:24] which is cool.

[00:36:24] Just as a little update, Tuesday, May 21st.

[00:36:27] So I actually now, originally I called the rate cut

[00:36:30] on the show and then I said,

[00:36:32] I didn't say this on the show

[00:36:33] but once the jobs data came out,

[00:36:35] I was like, oh man, we might not see a rate cut

[00:36:37] but now I think it's back on because core inflation

[00:36:40] is at 1.6.

[00:36:41] I think they'll give a little bit of a relief.

[00:36:43] What do you think, 25, 50?

[00:36:46] 25 maybe, yeah, maybe 50.

[00:36:48] 50 would scare me to be honest.

[00:36:49] I'd be like, yeah, what do they see out there?

[00:36:51] Who knows?

[00:36:52] I think we'll get back to like probably

[00:36:54] like a 3% overnight rate in like 25

[00:36:56] or 50 basis point increments, like kind of slowly down.

[00:37:00] Anyway, do people want to live in these new cities?

[00:37:03] So just over 60% of Canadians live

[00:37:06] in just two provinces, right?

[00:37:08] Yeah, so here's just some,

[00:37:10] just pulled some random stats about Canada

[00:37:13] because to think about building

[00:37:15] an entirely new city in Canada,

[00:37:18] I took out a map and not a physical map

[00:37:20] because I don't have one of those

[00:37:22] but took out a map on Google,

[00:37:25] failed sidewalk labs company

[00:37:28] and was like where could

[00:37:30] one of these potential new cities go?

[00:37:32] Just theoretically, I don't think

[00:37:34] that's the solution that we need.

[00:37:36] Cities take a long time to build

[00:37:38] but you got to remember as Dan said,

[00:37:39] 60% of Canadians live in just two provinces,

[00:37:41] Ontario, Quebec

[00:37:42] and the majority of Canada's population

[00:37:44] is concentrated in areas close

[00:37:46] to the US border.

[00:37:48] 90% of Canadians live within 100 miles

[00:37:51] or 160 kilometers of the border

[00:37:52] and more than 70% live below

[00:37:54] the 49th parallel

[00:37:56] and when you throw BC and Alberta,

[00:37:59] so the four most populous provinces,

[00:38:02] that's Ontario, Quebec,

[00:38:03] British Columbia and Alberta,

[00:38:05] you have basically 87%

[00:38:07] of the country's population.

[00:38:09] So if we were to build a new city,

[00:38:14] where would it go?

[00:38:14] If we were to build a new city,

[00:38:16] what would the adoption be like?

[00:38:17] What kind of jobs would exist there?

[00:38:20] What kind of infrastructure?

[00:38:21] How do you incentivize people?

[00:38:24] Dan, we talk about buying pre-construction

[00:38:26] and the risks involved with that.

[00:38:28] What about buying pre-construction

[00:38:30] in a city that hasn't even been built yet?

[00:38:32] Yeah, it's interesting

[00:38:33] because I always think about

[00:38:35] how we ended up with where we're at

[00:38:39] and I think a lot of it is almost this want to be

[00:38:44] in these dense environments.

[00:38:45] It's a human need to have this tribalism,

[00:38:48] groupings together,

[00:38:50] being surrounded by other people.

[00:38:52] You can build a house in the middle of a field

[00:38:54] with a well and septic.

[00:38:55] Yeah, they drive 15 hours north

[00:38:57] and never have to see anybody again.

[00:38:59] Yeah, now with...

[00:39:02] Starlink.

[00:39:03] Yeah, Starlink and solar,

[00:39:05] the new Tesla solar shingles,

[00:39:07] you could literally live off grid,

[00:39:09] no problem, very simply, right?

[00:39:11] With little consequence to the environment

[00:39:13] where your septic tank,

[00:39:14] the way septic tanks work is you poop,

[00:39:16] it goes into a tank.

[00:39:18] It goes out in this bed of pipes that have holes in it

[00:39:20] and then it seeps into the grass

[00:39:22] and it rises out to the grass

[00:39:23] because water evaporates in the soil.

[00:39:25] Likes it.

[00:39:26] Pulls the...

[00:39:26] Yeah.

[00:39:27] Yeah.

[00:39:28] So anyway, all of us to say that we have,

[00:39:31] I think something like 80% of Canada

[00:39:33] is uninhabited

[00:39:36] and then you look at Saudi Arabia as an example,

[00:39:38] something like 60 to 70% uninhabited.

[00:39:40] I'm just using that example

[00:39:41] because they're going to do this lion thing.

[00:39:43] They've got desert.

[00:39:44] Yeah. And so,

[00:39:46] and with what's happening with the climate,

[00:39:49] regardless of whether or not it's human caused or not,

[00:39:52] I'm not going to get into that debate.

[00:39:53] There's no time for that one.

[00:39:55] I just would never touch it.

[00:39:59] The outcome is further desertification

[00:40:01] of certain areas, right?

[00:40:02] Further extreme climate in other areas

[00:40:04] like in Florida with the hurricanes

[00:40:08] and all this stuff.

[00:40:09] Thanks to the British Columbia with wildfires.

[00:40:10] Right.

[00:40:11] So we're getting less and less potential habitability maybe,

[00:40:15] but we have all of these land masses,

[00:40:16] Canada being a great example.

[00:40:18] It's like, do we need to be building new cities

[00:40:19] or should we just be using our existing land better?

[00:40:25] There's an idea.

[00:40:25] I'm just trying to figure out why we're all so into

[00:40:32] super cool dense concepts.

[00:40:33] Does everybody really want to live that way?

[00:40:35] That's the thing.

[00:40:36] I don't think so.

[00:40:37] I don't think so either.

[00:40:39] I think especially the Canadian government, as an example,

[00:40:41] is using population growth and immigration

[00:40:43] as a strategy to grow the Canadian economy,

[00:40:46] which I fully support.

[00:40:47] I think it's necessary to offset an aging population.

[00:40:50] I think that they probably have been a little bit extreme

[00:40:52] with their numbers and there's economic consequences

[00:40:54] which have been observed by other people than me.

[00:40:57] But all of that aside,

[00:40:59] we're learning that people, new Canadians,

[00:41:02] appear to not be demanding

[00:41:04] all these dense living concepts.

[00:41:06] A lot of them want to live in suburban markets.

[00:41:07] They're consuming more of those sprawl ideas.

[00:41:10] They're coming from very dense environments.

[00:41:12] And this has happened with every wave of immigration

[00:41:15] that we've had with different major feeder areas in Canada

[00:41:19] over the last 50 plus years,

[00:41:22] all the way back from Italians when you're ancestors,

[00:41:26] I guess that's the right word, right?

[00:41:28] We're immigrating to Canada.

[00:41:30] Same thing.

[00:41:31] Very often we're not living in dense concepts.

[00:41:33] So I just find that piece fascinating.

[00:41:35] I think it's something that not a lot of people

[00:41:36] are thinking about.

[00:41:37] Is right.

[00:41:38] Yeah, and I completely agree.

[00:41:40] And I also think that there's, as you said,

[00:41:43] there's all this lore attached to some of these.

[00:41:48] They're pitched as the new smart city,

[00:41:51] the new utopian.

[00:41:52] But going back to the one that we looked at in South Korea,

[00:41:56] well, it's hard to meet people.

[00:41:59] People weren't interacting like they would

[00:42:01] because there was incentives to move to these places

[00:42:04] or you had to be of a certain net worth

[00:42:06] to be able to afford to live in these places.

[00:42:08] So I think it starts to mess with the natural progression

[00:42:13] of humans moving around,

[00:42:14] the natural push and pull factors.

[00:42:16] And again, do I think it's cool from an architecture

[00:42:20] and urban planning and mega project,

[00:42:22] like I grew up watching all the mega project stuff

[00:42:24] on National Geographic and History Channel.

[00:42:27] I love that stuff from an engineering perspective,

[00:42:29] but do I think it's actually gonna solve the problem?

[00:42:32] No.

[00:42:32] Do I think there's ulterior motives for some of these people

[00:42:35] being financial and maybe ego at play in some of them?

[00:42:39] 100%.

[00:42:40] And do they work?

[00:42:42] No.

[00:42:43] We've also seen China having built more cities

[00:42:46] than any other country in the world.

[00:42:48] We've seen a lot of those cities sit empty

[00:42:51] and in some cases, eventually be partially demolished

[00:42:55] because they are literally sitting there

[00:42:57] and no one wants to live there.

[00:42:58] So I mean, China is like has its own challenges

[00:43:00] where I think their population is gonna drop

[00:43:02] from like 1.7 billion to 1.4 billion by 2050.

[00:43:06] 300 million people that aren't gonna be around

[00:43:09] and aren't gonna need a place to live.

[00:43:11] So like expected to shrink to half by 2100.

[00:43:14] So like a lot of these areas, I mean,

[00:43:15] I guess the one piece is like when you think about

[00:43:18] the Surrey, BC, Burnaby example,

[00:43:20] it's like when it happens with cities that are there,

[00:43:23] like when it's almost like an infill,

[00:43:26] people can still be residents, right?

[00:43:27] Like yeah, you might get some NIMBYs,

[00:43:29] but like people are more likely to absorb that

[00:43:31] because they knew someone there,

[00:43:33] they had their grocery store

[00:43:34] that they used to frequent or whatever.

[00:43:35] But when it's something brand new,

[00:43:36] like the most likely person to absorb that

[00:43:38] is probably a new immigrant

[00:43:41] like our new person moving there to Saudi Arabia

[00:43:43] or to Canada or whatever the context is.

[00:43:45] But then the challenge is like, is that what they want?

[00:43:47] Because I don't know if that's like,

[00:43:51] if Saudi Arabia is trying to attract me

[00:43:52] as an immigrant to move there to live in the line,

[00:43:55] like I don't actually know

[00:43:57] if that's a concept that I would live in.

[00:43:59] It doesn't actually really resonate with me.

[00:44:03] You know what I like,

[00:44:04] I like century homes and like an acre of land.

[00:44:06] You're driving 15 hours north and getting the solar shingles.

[00:44:09] Yeah. So that's kind of just where,

[00:44:13] I don't know,

[00:44:15] where was the market validation studies on these things?

[00:44:18] The market validation was if you build it,

[00:44:22] hopefully they count.

[00:44:22] Yeah, that's what it's starting to seem like, right?

[00:44:25] So anyway, that's the last piece I'll leave it with,

[00:44:27] but I'm just like, is this really what people want?

[00:44:31] Yeah. I mean, again, I don't think so,

[00:44:33] but we would love to hear from all of you.

[00:44:34] If you found this episode enjoyable,

[00:44:36] we had a ton of fun putting this one together

[00:44:38] and taking you for a round the world trip

[00:44:41] on all the new cities being built

[00:44:43] and kind of having a quick discussion

[00:44:45] on if this would be a suitable solution

[00:44:48] for what we're dealing with here at home.

[00:44:51] Let us know what you think.

[00:44:52] Would you live in a brand new city

[00:44:55] built somewhere in Canada?

[00:44:56] If you would, where do you think the best location

[00:44:58] for that brand new city is?

[00:45:01] As always, thank you so much for listening.

[00:45:03] Go check out all the great stuff in the show notes.

[00:45:05] Joinrealist.ca

[00:45:08] and if you would like to leave Dan on our view

[00:45:11] and give us a pat on the back,

[00:45:12] we would be greatly appreciative of that.

[00:45:14] Thanks so much and we'll talk to you soon.

[00:45:17] The Canadian real estate investor podcast

[00:45:20] is for entertainment purposes only

[00:45:22] and it is not financial advice.

[00:45:24] Nick Hill is a mortgage agent with Premier Mortgage Centre

[00:45:28] and a partner in the G&H Mortgage Group.

[00:45:31] License number 10317.

[00:45:34] Agent license M21004037.

[00:45:40] Daniel Foch is a real estate broker

[00:45:41] licensed with Rare Real Estate,

[00:45:44] a member of the Canadian Real Estate Association,

[00:45:47] the Toronto Real Estate Board

[00:45:49] and the Ontario Real Estate Association.