Industry Leaders Share Tools To Get Through A Tough Market

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Canadian Real Estate Investor, where hosts Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio. I am here with the creator, the founder of Buzz Media, the Buzz Conference, all the conferences, all the events you guys put on. Virginia, thank you so much for inviting us to cover it on the Canadian Real Estate Investor Podcast.

[00:00:26] Tell us a little bit about you, why you started this whole thing and just your vision overall for it. Oh, amazing. Thanks. Number one, thank you so much for being our podcast sponsor, Nick and Daniel. We've been following you for a few years now and we love what you guys represent. I've been a licensed realtor for three plus decades, over 30 years, although my license is currently parked. I no longer trade.

[00:00:50] My daughter Isabella and I co-founded Buzz Buzz Media Inc., I'm going to say 2019, but I personally have been doing real estate conferences for 15 years. Wow. And we've done them across Canada. We've done them in Vancouver, in Halifax, in Calgary and our signature conferences here in Toronto. Although we've moved this particular conference here to Mississauga to allow for better transportation through our major transportation routes.

[00:01:19] As you know, we've got access to the QEW, 401, 407 and the 403. And I think this was probably content wise, our best signature conference yet. We do these conferences to bring our industry together from all levels, whether you're a new or newer agent to an experienced veteran in our industry.

[00:01:41] There's people who have been here for over 45 years today and we love our pioneers and those that set the foundational principles of our industry. But we also gather people from the upper echelon, our CEOs of major corporate real estate brands to our associations and our local real estate boards. And then we bring in our strategic partners, whether they're lawyers or builders or mortgage agents, people from the mortgage industry like yourself.

[00:02:10] We bring you together to teach, share, inform, educate and inspire agents so that they can build better real estate businesses to serve the clients in their dream of home ownership. So everything that we do has to revolve around the client and around their experience in buying and selling property here in Canada. Amazing.

[00:02:32] I think that, you know, over the last two days, the amount of people here, as you said, the caliber of the people here and not only that, but the spectrum of the people here. Right. There's people that have been agents for or, you know, one, two years. And then we just spoke to someone who's been doing it for decades. Yes. And I think that's the power of these events that you throw. And it's just leading with value and connecting people because real estate at the end of the day, no matter where you are, what you're doing is a people first business.

[00:03:00] Absolutely. I mean, we can we've talked about technology and AI and all these unique platforms that are entering our industry. Yes, it's helping us become more efficient and it's helping us innovate to provide newer, newer services and products to the client. But at the same time, just as you mentioned, it is a people to people business.

[00:03:22] If you're buying, as you know, now a million dollar property, which is probably the entry level for a first time home buyer now in cities like Mississauga or Oakville, Burlington, etc., we need to be face to face with people. If we're talking finance, mortgages, law, things like that, we need to make sure we're delivering that face to face, not through a text or a DM or an AI generated platform. People still want to work with people.

[00:03:50] That's the foundation, one of the foundational principles of Buzz. And that's why we bring so many awesome people together. Amazing. I'm going to cut it there. Virginia and Isabella, you got a shout out to wherever you are. Thank you both so much for allowing us to come and cover this. It's been an amazing experience. And for everyone out there listening, go check out Buzz, Buzz Media, and make sure you come to one of the several amazing events that you guys throw every year. Yes. And we're looking forward to also supporting your amazing event at the Canadian Real Estate Investor.

[00:04:20] I know Isabella and Stephanie attended your holiday party and they thought the fun mixed in with the education was an overall awesome experience. So we're looking forward to supporting the work that you guys do to bring value to our industry. Amazing. Thank you. Thank you. I'm going to start with the easiest question, which is who are you and what do you do? Okay, here we go. My name is Raz. Raz Zohar. I'm the CEO of Maeve. We are an AI company in the real estate space.

[00:04:49] What we do is we work with brokerages to streamline their marketing operations. So brokerages want to support their agents. Agents need support around the clock. Their timing is I need it yesterday. And brokerages really have two options. They either have to hire these robust teams that are incredibly expensive for them to do, adopt different tech solutions that their agents don't use, or bring on a tool like Maeve. What we do is we work with them. We take in all their rules, all their guidelines, and our AI is literally built on it.

[00:05:15] So when an agent needs support, instead of trying to call email people, they can just call, email, text Maeve the exact thing they need, and in 90 seconds they have all their support done. Awesome. I feel like AI has become such a buzzword. There's good and bad executions of it. Probably much to your shigur, and I imagine competing with some of that. Early in the game it was maybe a little bit easier, but now it's becoming one of those spaces where I feel like every other day I'm getting hit.

[00:05:45] With some like chat GPT rapper that, you know, poorly executed, whatever. How do you stand out in a space that's, and this is probably, you know, maybe just as much good advice for realtors and investors where it's a super crowded and competitive space. How do you stand out in a space that is becoming increasingly competitive and saturated right now? So I think everyone sees this on their timelines. Every realtor probably hears this at conferences.

[00:06:12] There will be someone telling you that they have the million dollar playbook as to how you're going to make a million bucks with AI. The one thing I'll say is don't trust it. There is no million dollar playbook. AI is amazing. It's advancing super fast. Every day, literally, you get hit with something new. At the end of the day, it's just a tool. It'll save you time, but for every realtor who listens to this, they have to understand they're the million dollar playbook. It'll just give you time to get there.

[00:06:34] When it comes to sticking out in a crowded and almost already saturated space filled with GPT wrappers and whatever it may be, I think the key is legitimacy. I mean, what we've done very early on is for us to really develop a tool for the industry. We have to partner with the industry. So what we've done is we have met with the Toronto Real Estate Board and every other board we're with. We have partnered with them to get their data. We follow the rules to train it properly.

[00:06:58] We work with every brokerage we're with to make sure that beyond just compliancy and accuracy, whenever any of their realtors need support, it's done exactly how they want it to. So it's not these cookie cutter GPT wrappers are great. And don't get me wrong. I'm sure there are some incredible tools out there. But I really think that if anybody wants to design an AI product for any space industry, period, you have to partner with it to really understand how to do it. And I think that's what we've done really, really well to get this started.

[00:07:27] And we're excited for the path ahead. Awesome. I think the real estate industry is interesting in such that it's not a very well-regarded profession. I know I'm going to get a lot of flack for saying that one. But I think there's a really high incentive to replace the realtor with technology. But I think you and I have discussed this before. Like it may happen someday, but I don't think that someday is in any time exceptionally soon.

[00:07:53] But I think the path to getting there eventually is an interesting one that's worth thinking about, which is like you end up with this environment. It's like computer-assisted real estate. And it's as much of a revolution in the space as computer-assisted design was in the 90s, right? Where people went from drafting on paper with their hand to drafting on their computer. And what you started to see as a result of that innovation was like deflation, reduction in costs, better output, better results for the customer.

[00:08:23] Given that there's such a high incentive to try and either replace or reduce the brokerage fee structure, the agent's fee structure. I mean we're seeing the NAR lawsuit in the US, a copycat lawsuit happening in Canada. What do you see like that environment looking like over the next like 5 to 10 years? Okay. So maybe let's start with the realtor and then we'll get to the brokerage.

[00:08:45] The first thing that's important to call out is never in the history that's been recorded have realtors been used more to get transactions across the finish line. And that actually is very surprising to me, especially with COVID and real estate going absolutely crazy during that time. You'd expect more deals to be done without them. But I think it's a psychological barrier. People don't want to make a mistake with the largest purchase of their life. Maybe the realtor's back-end operations looks different, but I truly believe that the future will always have agents involved.

[00:09:15] Now, whether they're going to have massive teams behind them that need to support them, whether they need 15 to 20 different tools or people to get the work done. Yeah, I don't know about that. Will they be making the same type of commission? I don't know either. But there will always be agents at play helping their end consumer. The brokerages are really interesting to me because if you look just over the last 10 years, they've lost 50% of their operational margins as a business.

[00:09:41] You know, 10 years ago, they were making, I think it was about 22% per transaction on average across North America. They're down to 11%. So running a business like that, that's slowly, slowly, slowly seeing their margins just continuously getting compressed. How do you keep the lights on? Especially in a tough market like we're in right now. And when you think about what that world looks like in five to 10 years, I don't see how a brokerage doesn't operate completely on tools like AI or any other type of automation tools because they just won't be able to afford it.

[00:10:10] But if you look at the brokerage's role in the whole industry, I mean, you have two real jobs. Make sure the deal gets done properly, legally, with compliance. And also, if you have realtors, support them in the best possible way to get you to that outcome. And when an agent is trying to evaluate, why would I join this brokerage? They're looking at what are you going to do for me? Historically, I always wanted to go buy a house. I'd walk into a REMAX office. I'd be like, hey, guys, who can help me? I want to buy a house. And REMAX would be like, hey, come meet Dan.

[00:10:40] Dan would love to help you. That's why they would take 50% of your commission. That just doesn't work anymore. The agent controls the power. The agent has the relationship. So when an agent goes to meet with that REMAX now, they're saying, I have a ton of work to do. I need to focus on growing my business. How are you going to help me do that? And if a brokerage can't offer anything, whether it's saving money, saving time, helping with the back-end support, why would I join you? Right.

[00:11:05] So the way I think about the future of the brokerage space is they need to find ways to offer support, to find ways to attract the top producers to their brand or retain their top ones. And they have to find ways to afford it because their margin, in my opinion, will just keep compressing over time. Yeah, it's interesting. Makes me think like, I think I've used this quote a couple of times on the show, but like innovation is deflationary, right? Like it should hypothetically. I mean, you're seeing it in like a comp side right now, right?

[00:11:33] Like, you know, anything that's super GPT adjacent, like it's becoming done by AI at a much faster rate. I guess that leads me to kind of thinking about like the jobs to be done framework of like a real estate transaction, right? Like there's like, can we examine the scope of like end to end, like what a real estate transaction looks like and what things actually like currently can be replaced with AI? What things might eventually be able to be replaced with AI?

[00:12:00] And then what things probably might never just so that people can maybe start like anticipating what the future might look like? Yeah, of course. So if I think about, okay, if the realtor controls the relationship, there's almost four supporting roles around the relationship that need to happen for any transaction to work. There is the actual deal coordination. So let's just say there's a deal admin who's going to support that person. There is the broker of record compliance, making sure the deal is done properly. You have the marketing wing, right? If you're selling, if you're representing a listing, you have to market it properly, whatever may be.

[00:12:28] And there's the operational element of it. Help me coordinate my bookings, calendar, talking with my clients, whatever it may be. If I look at that spectrum where I am most worried about people telling me that they're using AI right now is on the deal creation and coordination and the compliance side. Not saying that AI can't do it. It's just AI is really good at making mistakes right now. Really good.

[00:12:52] And if you're putting together a contract for a home and a lot of agents are usually on the go, they're driving to their next appointment. They're just calling their EA to get something done or let's say they're asking Maeve to do something. If you're asking for a contract to be created and it makes a tiny little mistake that you can't really identify while you're driving, that could be major red flag. And I don't think AI is there right now. It will be. But if I think about what's capable right now, I think about the operational layer.

[00:13:17] I think about the marketing stack because if you can get your AI solution to understand your brand, understand your voice, connect to your back end operations like your calendar, and you give AI clear instructions and rules, it'll actually do a pretty good job of managing that. So my caution is when it comes to the legality side of real estate, I don't think AI is reliable enough yet. It will be though in the next, I don't think in the next five years. I think in the next 12 to 18, maybe 24 months it'll be.

[00:13:46] Yeah, it is interesting because it seems to be playing a bigger and bigger role in like the legal profession. I think as long as you're including like, I guess as long as the error is a surplus, right? Like they're including too much, right? So, you know, oh, my client didn't want a financing and inspection condition, but the AI put a financing and inspection condition in the offer as an example or from a compliance perspective. You know, as long as it's over adding kind of legal protection.

[00:14:16] And then I guess your realtor almost evolves into like a manager role, right? Or even, you know, I mean, if you look at like reading some of these, you know, go back to like reading like the millionaire real estate agent as an example. You know, like that first thing that you hire is like an admin. Maybe your admin becomes this manager of all of these technology tools. I mean, I think it's like anything. Like I think people think about it as like a technology, but it really is more of like a hire almost.

[00:14:42] And it still does require a manager to make sure that like a lot of those things are done properly. Like you can't just let it go without supervision, right? Like it needs to be supervised, I think still and probably indefinitely. You nailed it. And you know what? Speaking of the legal space, I actually want to talk about one really cool company. It's called Spellbook. They're out of Toronto. They are, they help lawyers draft contracts at the end of the day. What they did, which is really smart, which is kind of what you're talking about, is they actually built their tool right into Microsoft Word.

[00:15:11] So if a lawyer is drafting up a contract, all you have to do is literally go to Spellbook on the side, ask it to write you a clause, and it will just put it right into Microsoft Word. Why was that a magic moment? Because AI right now will get you 80% of the way there. And what you need to do is find the easiest possible way to manage that experience with the extra 20%. So if you're a lawyer in Microsoft Word and AI drafted a clause for you, it is so easy for you to go just delete that and rewrite it the way you want it to.

[00:15:41] But it got you 80% of the way there. So when we think about the role of AI and how you described it as you're now going to become a manager for all these virtual hires for you, what we always think about at Maeve is how do we help the realtor get 80% of the way there through Maeve and give us the 20% that's missing in the fastest possible way? Yeah. It's interesting because I think that 80-20 is actually a really good distribution for thinking about just the real estate transaction.

[00:16:05] And if 80% of the work can end up being done by technology, which I think in the fullness of time is probably pretty accurate, from booking the showing to a lot of the admin tasks to marketing to drafting paperwork, etc. It really leaves the realtor to actually being more of a deliverer of value proposition than they've ever been. For sure.

[00:16:28] Which is, I mean, a lot of agents whose only value prop before was, you know, I can write the offer. I can, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I can do the deal for you. They're probably going to have a hard time surviving in a market where technology can replace a lot of those things.

[00:16:44] But the agents who really do either deliver results or deliver unparalleled customer service, I think are going to stand out and going to create a future real estate industry that has a much better result for the consumer. Right? 100%. Like that's something to look forward to. That's like that idyllic future that, I mean, maybe like a couple of years before Skynet becomes self-aware or whatever, you know, is that's like the, that to me is like a really nice end case.

[00:17:14] Maybe people will hate realtors less. Maybe. Because you'll become true consultants, which is what you're supposed to be paid to do. Yeah. Right? Advisory. Yeah. Exactly. At the end of the day. Not just like gatekeeping, right? Yeah. Consumers have the same data you do or most. There's some data that only realtors may have or brokerages may have access to. But at the end of the day, the real most valuable piece that I think a realtor will always have is the ability to hold your hand and make you feel comfortable with the transaction.

[00:17:39] And if you compare that with the right intelligence level on top of it, which is to make you a true consultant and bring something to the table that no one else can, that's 100% the winning formula. The biggest thing that we've realized with building Maeve, which is always something to call out, is with Maeve, we give agents an unlimited level of knowledge. You can ask it about anything that's going on in the market, fulfill any tasks, whatever it may be. A lot of agents just don't know where to start.

[00:18:10] Because you know what to look for. You see the key indicators that you're like, oh, wait, that's interesting. Let's double click on that for a second. Most realtors don't. That's why they look for you. So what we always think about is how do we keep finding these meaningful moments to get these agents to the next level of their education, of their advisory power so we can create that reality a lot faster? Yeah, it's interesting.

[00:18:32] Like I've always felt that and one of the reasons I ended up on this path is because I honestly thought that one of the primary functions of a realtor was, so you've got like all of the MLS information that has historically been gatekept and is gradually becoming more transparent. Right. And so you're information gathering from that source, but you're also information gathering from all of the sources of shots being fired at the fire, right? All of the risk factors. And you're like Captain America with your shield just like blocking them all off from the people.

[00:18:59] But in order to protect them from a lot of these risk factors, you have to know what all of those are, right? And it's so different per customer too. Yeah, it is. Where we're going next as a company and the questions that we're always trying to address and solve for these agents and these brokerages is, you know Dan needs specific things done. You may not have spoken to Dan in two years, but that doesn't mean that these things are not happening in the background. Like I always like to give this example. It's the weirdest example, but it's amazing. A client came to us and he said, my client's obsessed with pickles. Like, okay.

[00:19:29] Like, what do you want me to do with that? He said, there was a pickle festival in Toronto last week. I haven't spoken with that guy in two years. That was my ideal moment to go and just reach back out. Why couldn't I know that? In our head, why shouldn't you know that? That's a very ridiculous example.

[00:19:45] But if you think about what Dan is interested in, if we can collect data about your consumers, about your customers, about the market and tie those pieces together, not only can you generate more business, but you can just become a smarter support system for these buyers because you'll actually provide them the value they need when they need it. Yeah. And that's kind of the mission of what we're trying to get to next. Yeah. I mean, my mom's been like historically like top producing individual agent and, you know, birthday cards, like a huge thing. It's like you do a FinTrack, like you know the person's birthday.

[00:20:13] Like, why hasn't FinTracker been hooked up with a birthday card? Yeah. There's your next thing, right? It's not even AI. He's somewhere here. Yeah, probably. Yeah. But like, you know, it's those little things, right? That to me are – that make a big difference. Last question. Yeah. The – unless you have a question to ask yourself, I'll always give you that opportunity at the end. But the U.S. NAR lawsuit, fee compression, what's going on? I know like you are probably one of the people that is most informed in that environment.

[00:20:42] We have the copycat lawsuit happening in Canada. Yeah. I'm not going to make you predict an outcome on that. I have my own suspicions that I've voiced on the podcast. You're welcome to make some projections and we won't hold you accountable to them. But – You sure? Yeah. No. I mean, our audience might. I can't speak for them, but I will not personally hold you accountable. But yeah. What can you tell me about that and what do you think is going to happen as a result of it? All right. Some interesting data that I've heard from major brokerage owners down south.

[00:21:09] So first thing is first, since the lawsuit came into play, surprisingly, commissions have stayed flat. Actually, some have increased in specific regions. They haven't gone down at all. Right. Because I think realtors are really fighting for their commission. They're really fighting for their income. And I think customers are playing ball. I don't think it has changed a lot yet. However, I don't see how that's not going to change. I also think that's for the better. I think that in the future, what we're going to see, because it's obviously coming to Canada as well,

[00:21:37] you're going to see the buy side change completely, where I think the customer will have a lot more power. And you're going to see the realtor actually coming in as a consultant and a paid consultant to help them through the transaction. I still very much believe that on the sell side, you will see realtors making good money. Because selling a property is a lot more work. You have to become a marketing manager for it. It's a beast of an operation. But I think the buy side is going to change very, very fast.

[00:22:05] And I think what you're going to see a lot of sophisticated agents doing is finding the right support system to support their buyers and eventually get them to the sell side as fast as possible. But I don't think that's going to happen in the next year or two. I think this industry is always slow to move. I think these are really crucial and important moments in time. But the market's dictating that nothing has changed so far, but it will. It's funny because you basically have this trained army of incredibly passionate salespeople

[00:22:33] lobbying against any progress. So it is hard. I don't even know if a lot of people say the industry is archaic. Okay, maybe it is. But maybe it also just doesn't want to change. And because it's literally... Imagine you hired every pharmaceutical sales rep or every SaaS sales rep to lobby against changes in their industry because that's kind of what happens, right? A hundred percent.

[00:22:58] And again, just to say it again, I very much believe that the agents are the present and the future. By agents, I mean realtors, not AI agents. And I think that their job, their compensation may change, but they're never going away. I just think that as opposed to reacting negatively to these changes, as opposed to fighting them, there could be a moment to pause and just think of like, how can I make myself a smarter, more reliable advisor to my customers and take advantage of this opportunity?

[00:23:28] I think that's just a projection exercise, right? People who are negative are going to react negatively to it. People who are positive are more likely to react positively. So, I mean, the ones who are positive and welcome to change are going to be the ones who really push this industry forward. And I encourage them to do that because the outcome will be better. If people want to find you or if you want to ask yourself a question, if there's anything I didn't discuss here, where should they find you and anything you want to leave our audience with? Yeah. So, hop on to maveai.co. You can always reach out to me on LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever it may be. If there's a question I want to ask myself.

[00:23:58] This isn't a question, but it's something important to know that we actually looked at the numbers yesterday and we're on pace over the next 12 to 18 months to have almost 20% of all Trev members powered by mave. Nice. Which is honestly... And you said they're using it too, right? Using it. It's... Like people are using AI. It's not like some buzzword. No. Okay. People use it in different ways, but I'll tell you what we've seen with mave. And I think I'll tell you what our biggest unlock has been.

[00:24:23] So, it's pretty crazy, but half of our users are using us just over six times per week, which is not what we expected. We were hoping to get the like, you know, PropTech SaaS benchmarks, which is like give it to a brokerage. 20% of our users will actually use it every month. But we're seeing 50%, more than 50% using us six times a week. And I think what we've done really well, besides obviously, you know, we've integrated their workflows is we just make it so incredibly easy to use.

[00:24:51] I think a lot of the challenges with AI is people are just intimidated by it. You literally text mave. The most used use case for us for now is on WhatsApp. People literally just use this on WhatsApp. It's so easy for them to understand and use that the learning curve is almost immediate. That's actually an interesting note. The idea that AI is killing UI, right? Like that, you know, there's no more app, right? Like people are just texting it or eventually they'll be talking to it, right? Like Sir Hank came out with his thing and they call themselves now screenless agents, right? Which is really interesting.

[00:25:21] And what he's created with Simple, we love. It promotes the same message we have. I mean, if you think about how real estate operations have worked, let's go with 30 years ago, you had to fill out paperwork. It worked. Maybe it wasn't the easiest process, but it worked. And then the industry trained you that, hey, you now have a CRM. You have your marketing automation platform. You have your DocuSign, your Realm Login if you're a member of Treb, whatever it may be.

[00:25:47] Yeah, these tools make it easier, but it's still not the easiest process. You have 12 different tools you have to learn how to use. Everything is moving to conversational. To your point, I don't think you're going to need to log into anything. You shouldn't have to send a message and things will get done for you. Freaking Gary Vee, he saw this one coming. Hey, like I remember when he was saying, do you follow that guy? I sometimes. Oh, that's Rick, man. And he's like, oh, voice is going to be the way of the future.

[00:26:13] And I mean, as a podcaster, I have the annoying voice on the show, but Nick has like the radio voice. Is that what the answer voted? You're the annoying voice? I've voted it personally. And it's not like that. I actually just have a like, you know, that thing that people have where like, they're afraid of hearing their own voice. When I talk on the podcast, my voice is a lot different. Now I'm changing it. It's like my normal voice. But I'm like, I'm like literally like adjusting the treble in my truck. Like why is the treble so high? Like, and, but it's just my voice. What do you think they would say if they saw yours and Nick's hair? Do you think that would change? I don't know.

[00:26:43] It's actually funny because his voice is very masculine. And I think I have a more masculine look. No offense, Nick. But it's the beard. Like, you know, it's receding hairline, whatever. Nick looks like a like very boyish with the mustache. And I can see that. And so, but I have the boyish voice and he has like the masculine. So people always think that we're the opposite. Interesting. Yeah. So. And they see like, whoa, what just happened? Yeah. But, but Gary Vee telegraphed this that like everything was going to go to voice eventually. Like, I mean, in a couple of years, like I've, I've been actually like researching

[00:27:10] this on just like which smart home platform is going to end up being like the most AI, like, you know, or have the most AI development on it because like, I literally, I look at my count. Like I check my calendar to add stuff to it, like multiple times a day. Right. And now Google home plus the Alexa one where it's like a frame on the wall, like it can pull it up and you can just say, pop something in there. Like that function alone. Like I'm looking at these devices. I'm like, they're like a thousand bucks. I'm like, but it's kind of worth it. It's worth it.

[00:27:38] Like to be able to have that, like just sitting on my desk and like show me my calendar and then pop the thing in where I ask it is like. Oh, it's the best. By the way, Google is for sure going to win that race. It's not even a question. Yeah. That's what I thought too. They're also open source. So you can build on top of it. Apple is all closed, but yeah. Well, the only thing is with the Alexa is just like, it's right on the wall. Yeah. It's like the one thing that Google's losing at, but it's okay. You know what? Google will figure it out. I imagine they will. Is there anything else? I think we're good. Okay. I'm good. I was very satisfied.

[00:28:05] No, I honestly, I, yeah, no, I'm, I'm very happy with the discussion and, uh, we'll make sure to send everybody your way. Lots of realtors listen to the show and, um, go check out Maeve. This is a very long interview compared to the rest of them here. So it's might, might warrant its own, uh, with, with a couple of, uh, maybe other prop tech segments in it, but yeah. Awesome. Cool. Thanks guys. All right. I'm here with Sam Hewitt, the executive vice president of Royal Page Signature.

[00:28:31] Sam, what exactly does that role mean at Royal Page Signature? Are you helping agents? Are you training agents? Are you out there doing transactions yourself? Are you kind of doing a bit of everything? Tell me about yourself and your role at the organization. Yeah. Thanks, Nick. That's a great question. We, uh, so Royal Page Signature is one of the largest real estate brokerages here in the GTA. In fact, I believe we might be the largest. We are independently owned and we're a pretty entrepreneurial company.

[00:28:58] So we don't, we don't often believe too much in titles. Like I actually suggested maybe they just call me like doer of the things. Um, cause then you come up to me and you're like, Hey Sam, can you do this? I'm like, sure. Like, Hey Sam, can you look at my social? No problem. Hey Sam, can you help me look at this contract? Yeah. Happy to. Like I, we really sort of, you know, we really believe in helping our agents. So my official role is in guidance of the realtors themselves. So, you know, if you are looking to build a bigger business, if you're looking for strategy

[00:29:27] conversations, if you're looking for marketing help, if you know, you have a property that you put on the market and you're not getting the showing traffic you're looking for, most of the sales team will come to me to look for advice, you know, solutions, things that I can do to help them in any of those capacities. Um, we're not as siloed as maybe a more formal corporation. We really do believe in you need help and you come in to chat with me and you need something. I'm going to help you figure out what that looks like. And if it's not me, I'll help you figure out who it is that'll help you.

[00:29:57] I love that title. I actually think that maybe you should adopt that title. It's funny because in commercial real estate, everyone's chasing that new executive senior EVP, whatever. Right. And you're just like, I don't need a title. I just get shit done, which which I love. And that is the true entrepreneurial spirit. Now, in that entrepreneurial spirit and helping, let's assume, maybe younger or newer agents as they kind of, you know, navigate these volatile and rough waters that we're in.

[00:30:23] What kind of advice are you giving people to get that kind of stuff done right now? Yeah. I mean, it's funny. We we have we have a wide variety of of realtors. It's an interesting cross section of people. We have agents. You know, we've got the number one, the number two team in Canada in our brokerage. You know, they're doing huge numbers, huge volume. And then we have people that got their license last week. And so it gives us as an organization a really interesting opportunity to learn from all different experience levels.

[00:30:53] And, you know, the executive team is also very focused on growth. We're here at the Buzz Conference for the last two days, listening to ideas, writing notes down, thinking about different things, hearing from different brokerage owners to say like, oh, they're doing that. Do we need to should we do that? Do we have to do that? And so I think that for us, the biggest way that I would say we help our team is that we're incredibly focused on what growth looks like and we're incredibly focused on the business itself. We are not a set it and forget it.

[00:31:22] Like you get your license, you come on over and we're like, OK, call if you need something, call when you get a lead. It's just not how we operate. And so it's sort of a long answer to your question. How do we help people? We have a very systematic, structured approach to, you know, different experience levels and what they need from a training perspective and a guidance perspective. Each kind of, you know, experience level is paired with a certain member of the management team to make sure they're getting the right guidance and supervision that they need. So people don't feel like they're kind of out on their own.

[00:31:51] I mean, you know, you and Dan would know being a realtor or a mortgage broker, it's a very lonely business. And it's so funny because that's not what it looks like from the outside or what it looks like on HGTV or all the Netflix shows. Right. So everyone's out having salads and dressing up and, you know, OK, yeah, we might sell house every now and then and make a huge commission. That's no problem. But it's social and sexy and fun. But you're right, it's not. And especially when times get tough like they are right now.

[00:32:18] I think that support that you provide is so crucial. I know a lot of people that we get this question all the time, you know, should I get my real estate license? Should I get my mortgage license? And I always say those kind of things like, are you ready to pick up the phone? Are you ready to put yourself out there? Are you ready to take these kind of risks and get out of your comfort zone? And, you know, a lot of people say yes, but is that actually going to happen in reality? Right. I know. Well, think about it.

[00:32:45] I mean, it's kind of not normal for people to get up every day and try to find a new client to do a deal with, to hopefully close, get them all the way to closing and all the issues that could come up between doing the deal and closing. And then they get paid and there's no guarantee and you have to recreate it every single year. Yeah. I do wonder sometimes, you know, as part of my role, I do occasionally speak to consumers

[00:33:14] if there's an issue or a real big problem. If there's, you know, the consumer wants to call in and speak to someone, you know, who's in charge, quote unquote. I don't tell them that my title is doer of the things at that point. I tell them my real title. But when I do have a chance to speak with consumers, I'm often not sure if they really, I think they understand it in theory. But sometimes when you go through sort of the understanding of like, this is what realtors and mortgage brokers do all day and the lack of guarantee. Sometimes I think people go, oh, oh yeah. Like, yeah, it really is.

[00:33:43] It takes a unique personality to want to be a part of that, I think. Yeah. I've gotten into the habit of, well, I did a long time ago. But anytime I'm taking a new client on, I now explain to them, I'm like, hey, this is exactly what I do. And you actually don't pay me. I get paid from the lender in only similar cases you pay me. And, you know, no one knows that kind of stuff. So I think a lot of what a real estate professional's job is, is education. Now, we're here at the Buzz Conference. You've been here.

[00:34:13] It's the end of the second day. You said you've been here taking notes, meeting people. What are some of the biggest takeaways that you're going to take and bring back to your three major offices in Toronto that are out there killing it? And to the agents, they probably need some of that advice and insight from someone such as yourself right now. Yeah. I mean, definitely, you know, yesterday, Benjamin Tao from CIBC, chief economist, was on the stage. And today we had a chance to hear from Tim Hudak, who, you know, has been involved in politics for a long time, of course.

[00:34:42] And then he was the president of ARIA. And I haven't heard him speak in a while, but both of those conversations were centered around the Canadian economy. You know, some predictions around what's going to happen with President Trump and the tariffs and how those will impact the... Hot topic right now. Hot topic. Hot topic. And so I think for sure a lot of that dialogue and conversation I'll be taking back to my team. There's been a lot of conversation around AI. I mean, that's not unique to our industry. I think that's every industry.

[00:35:08] But lots of conversations around how real professionals can leverage it and make it work for them as a tool, as opposed to being scared of it. Sometimes I get scared of it a little bit. Like, is it going to replace us? Do we have to be worried? But I know that's really not the case. You're the doer of things that can't replace you. I mean, I don't know. Someone told me you can send out auto text messages to like book the home stager. I mean, it makes you think, right? It makes you think. But I think that, you know, the conversation around AI, I also think, Nick, every time I come

[00:35:37] to a conference like this, it's so funny. My, you know, the partners I work with at my firm that aren't here today, they'll say to me, so what'd you hear? And I'm like, you know. Lots of stuff. No, I'm like, you know, connect with your audience. Yeah. Build trust. Be authentic. Post on social media. Be consistent with your phone calls. Like, this is such a fascinating business and time we're in because as much as there's,

[00:36:04] you know, AI and technology and all these tools, this is still a face-to-face voice-to-voice business. And every time you come to a conference like this, you'll have a mega agent on the stage. You know, this morning I got to listen to Tom Story and Elena Serraditas, who are both agents of mine at Royal LePage Signature. They both say the same thing. It's connecting to people you know. It's, you know, being smart. It's being knowledgeable. It's making phone calls and posting on social and, you know, being visible.

[00:36:31] And so that's really what I take back to my team when I come to events like this. Sometimes as a woman in leadership, it's about checking what you think you know and what you think you feel in your gut and coming to a room like this and listening to other people to go, yeah, okay, I'm on track with that. Or it's hearing those people don't seem to be doing this because they're doing that instead. And is that something I need to look at and pay attention to? But I feel like I have a pretty good handle on what is required because I lead a large ecosystem.

[00:37:01] I have a big data pool. I've got 1,600 agents. So I talk to people all day long, 24-7, and I take all of what I hear. And then we use that as our strategy to figure out what is working in today's market and what's successful. So coming to events like this is really just about, yeah, no, I'm on track. Yeah, I feel like we're doing the right things. And then sometimes it's, oh, yeah, you know what? I heard this great new company that will send out text messages to your seller going through the process of getting the house ready for sale.

[00:37:31] I should probably figure out what that's about and book a call with those people and just really understand who they are. And the last thing I'll say about conferences is it's like meeting you guys, right? It's, I've heard your name before. I've heard about the podcast before, but. You've never listened? Oh my God. Sam, what the hell? How could you? Edit that part out, please. You know, but it's getting to meet new people and making new connections and chatting with folks. And that's the fun part. Yeah, no, I love it. Okay. So two things I want to touch on there. So one, I'm going to be ridiculous and quote Tom Story. And he's a listener and we've both been on his podcast.

[00:38:01] So he's going to like this, but I completely agree. And he's got this great quote that I don't know if it's officially his or if he stole it. Oh, he stole it. Like I steal my quotes. Oh, tell him. He stole it. Visibility beats ability, right? And I love that so much. And the other thing I want to touch on is the AI piece, which is obviously a huge theme, not only at this conference in the world right now, no matter what business you're in. And the one thing I'll say to real estate professionals, mortgage professionals, anyone in this space is that it's the human connection, right?

[00:38:28] It's those soft skills that a computer, no matter how smart the computer is, much smarter than I will ever be, much smarter than I ever want to be. I don't need that much knowledge. But that computer will never be able to be sitting in a room like this, building a relationship like we are right now, right? So I think that's the hedge the agents have. And you brought up a lot of great points. You can increase your visibility and you can increase the ability to create new human connections by coming to things like this.

[00:38:58] That's exactly it. Amazing. Sam, okay. One last question for all the young struggling agents out there. One piece of advice for anyone, young, old, struggling in the game for a long time, whatever, agents that are just going through this, mortgage agents as well. You talk to 1600 people and got to keep them motivated, motivate our audience. Yeah. I mean, I think that there is so much opportunity out there in this business, whether you're a

[00:39:25] realtor or mortgage broker, there is such an opportunity for people right now that are looking for a point of view and they're looking for advice, not just, you know, we're not sure we're not there. They're looking for, I think consumers in today's danger are looking for leadership. And so if you're a new agent or a new mortgage broker listening and you're feeling a little lost, I think number one, you need to make sure you're in the right environment. I think environment plays a huge role in success for folks.

[00:39:52] If you feel like you're not in the right broker space that you can get help, that there's a path and a plan for you. And you can speak to somebody and sit down and go over your business plan and kind of churn through what it is you should be focused on. I think that's a big, big challenge. But I think the other thing that I find a lot with entrepreneurs, which I think is spurred on a little with social media is the comparison piece. I think that is new. I had this issue a couple of weeks ago.

[00:40:19] I had a woman come in to see me and she said, I've been competing on a listing with a competitor of mine and I watch their social media and they're so much more successful than I am. And they're doing so much more business. And I feel like I'm not going to win the listing. And I feel like my presentation is not good enough. All this self-doubt. And we have a way, a paid service where you can check production for different salespeople. And so I said, well, how many, how many deals is she doing? She said, I don't know, but her social is crazy. Anyways, we go on.

[00:40:47] This is my agent who's speaking to me as a top selling agent. She does almost 50 transactions a year. Wow. We go on to this software that you can search and the agent that she's worried about did six deals in 2024. And it's such a good reminder for all of us that like you can't get lost in the noise and the crazy. You just have to think about what am I trying to accomplish for myself? What are the things that have worked in my business? If I'm brand new, what are the things I'm hearing that are going to work?

[00:41:14] How do I leverage those for myself based on who I am in my business and maybe the area or the audience I want to work with? And can I get support from the environment that I'm in? And I think if you can't answer though, all of those things with like, yes, or I think I could do that. Then I think that you need to think about making a change, whether that's, you know, getting a coach, getting help, changing brokerages, getting a mentor, whatever it happens to look like. I think it's probably that you're in the wrong business because we have, I have a very good

[00:41:43] track record of taking someone who has started brand new. I mean, I won't take credit for Tom's story success because that's not my job, but he did start with Royal LePage Signature 10 years ago. So, you know, and that's a joke because Rich Robbins yesterday on the stage said that he's responsible for his success. So it's so funny. Everyone wants to take credit for someone else's success. But I think for us, we've really tried to develop a formula for new people that they can get started if they're doing work. Yeah, absolutely crucial. Sam, I want to thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thank you so much for having me.

[00:42:12] Sam, Executive Vice President of Royal LePage Signature. If people wanted to join the team, buy property through you or your team, where can we find out more about you? Yes. Thanks, Nick. You can go on to our website. We are at RoyalLePageSignature.com or you can follow me on social. My name is Sam underscore Hewitt, H-E-W-I-T underscore. Amazing. Thank you so much, Sam. Thanks for having me, guys. This is fun. Our pleasure. Okay.

[00:42:36] I am here with Steve Tabrizi, CEO and owner of Remax Hallmark Group of Companies, the largest Remax in the world. That's quite the flex, Steve. Tell me more about how you built this global real estate empire. Well, first of all, thank you for inviting me to your podcast. It wasn't easy. It's a 45 years process. We've been in the business since early 1980s. We are three partners.

[00:43:05] Me and my two amazing partners, Ken McLaughlin and Deborah Bay. And from the day one, we had a vision. And our vision was very simple. We can't stay complacent. We have to grow. We found about 14, 15 years ago, the best way of the grow for us was M&A, Merger and Acquisition. Ah, okay. And not organic grow. We do consistent organic grow.

[00:43:29] But we were like those three kids sitting around the fireplace and just wishing one day we could have 1,000 agents. And now we have 2,000 agents, 42 offices across Ontario. Last year, we moved to state. We have office in Florida, Naples, Florida. And we are a big force in our industry because we are across Ontario, a different market, from Ottawa to Oakville, from water all the way to Muskoka.

[00:43:55] We do about 25,000 transactions a year every 24 minutes. Wow. About $19 billion of the volume. So we move about 50,000 homes. It's incredible. We make 50,000 dreams come true. There it is. Now, speaking of dreams come true, I hate to dive right into this, but I'm so excited to hear your take on this. You were just telling me that you recently wrote an article called Identity Crisis. Can you, I'm not even going to say anything else. Why don't you just do the talking?

[00:44:24] Tell me everything that that article was about. People know me in the industry. They know I have, unfortunately, no filter. I care too much. And I speak from my heart. And I've watched other industry. I've been in this industry now close to about 28 years. I watched the industry, how it has evolved. And in the last five years, social media, technology, podcasts, videos, we are at a tipping point.

[00:44:52] The industry is completely on the evolving mode every literally week, months. Economic factor, geopolitical factors, policies, government regulations. And a consumer's expectation is a big thing. Younger generation. Younger generation are not thinking like the older generation. They have a high expectation for the services that they want. They want that experience.

[00:45:18] They want somebody to carry this experience for them from the day one to all the way to the completion. And agents, sadly, due to the following the trends. The trends is great. Podcast is a trend. Social media video is a trend. But they are not doing it with intention. And what is happening, you see everybody is on a video.

[00:45:42] You know, they're watching other people become a commentary in economic, but they don't have a substance when they talk about the economic. They can articulate what is happening in the market. So, I wrote this article. I said, identity crisis. Who are we? I love that. Our job was very simple. We are salesperson realtor. You mean we're not supposed to be social media influencer, podcaster, day in the life, follow me along. What's the definition of the influencer?

[00:46:11] Because you have 15,000 followers and 14,000 of them are a realtor. You are an influencer now. No. The influencer are the top producing agent in this industry that they are doing 500,000 transactions. They have a market share. They are the voice of the industry. They are the ambassador of the industry. Those are the people that we should look up and learn from them. And it's very interesting. Take a look at all the top producers.

[00:46:38] Majority of the top producers in this beautiful country or province of Ontario. Majority of them, yeah, they have social media. They have a marketing team. But everything that they do, they do it with intention. And they haven't lost the identity. And the identity that they have right now, they are educator of the public. Yes. And that's what we are supposed to do. We have to educate the public with the changes, with the trends, now with the U.S. But now suddenly I see everybody talks about the politics, how the politics, how the free trade works.

[00:47:08] We don't have even no clue how the free trade has been written. I couldn't agree more. This is something that we've – we're careful because we don't want to insult too many people while we say this. But I couldn't agree more. And I think that success in real estate has really gone from, hey, I just did five deals my first year, 10 my second, 30 my third, right? I'm growing to – I've got more social media followers now. I'm being invited to cooler places.

[00:47:36] I'm doing more exclusive home tours kind of thing. It's like, well, are you making money, first of all? And not only are you making money, but are you serving your clients? Are you doing what you're supposed to be doing? And I think that it's gotten – there's so much noise nowadays that it's affected how the industry works. So, okay, so we know what we're doing wrong. We can agree to that. Just to add to that. Yeah, please. I am not discrediting the people that they do it, same as you. We are not trying to offend them. Of course not.

[00:48:05] But we are just trying to say, okay, you know the trends is podcast. You know the trend is video. Go ask someone. You think you know how to do it. No. Go learn from someone who has done it, who has the ability to teach you about the content, who can do it properly for you, and then do it. But just don't think because you pick a mic and you pick a camera and a table, okay, you got a podcast show going on. Yeah.

[00:48:37] And, I mean, one of the things I'm really picking up on here is the word intention, right? So, I know what that means to me, but what does the word intention mean to you when you speak about this identity crisis in the industry? I always look at our company. We have three pillars in our company. We are in the business of the building your business. We are the guardian of our industry, and we are not by standard of our community. But the first pillar, I said to the agent, I said, we established this company for one purpose.

[00:49:06] Of course, to be successful. Success can be defined in multiple ways. Of course, the first is profitability. But when we say we are in the business of the building your business, that's our why. How can we bring tools, services, training, coaching, leadership, support, everything that you need, Mr. or Mrs. Agent, to make your journey easier?

[00:49:30] So, agents, they need to really dig deep and find, what's my role in this transaction process? Think about it. Consumers, they want to buy or sell. It's a transaction process. What's the expectation they have through this transaction process? I call it three-level services. Before, during, after. What we do during to secure leads, to secure prospect, to secure clientele.

[00:49:58] What do we do during the process for them that they may stay loyal with us? And what we do after to care with them so they give us the referral, we're lost. We're lost in the first process. Yeah. We can't get to number two and three without executing number one. Number one is the key for us. The prospecting and attracting the consumers. Oh, I'd like to listen to this kid. I like that video. Because they are teaching me and coaching me how the market is evolving.

[00:50:26] They're actually educating me about the tariff. They brought a guest speaker rather than agents not talk about the tariff. Economist. Benjamin Tal was at the bus conference, which the last two days. I love his statement. He said, no one knows what's going to happen. And that's someone that everyone is looking at that they think knows. But he's been doing it for 35 years. Yeah. Okay. So, Steve, one more question for me.

[00:50:53] I really love how you divided the kind of transaction, that linear path of transaction from a beginning, middle and end, before, during and after. For all of the newer or younger or agents that might be struggling, or even on the mortgage side, I'm a mortgage agent. How do you have a positive impact on each one of those? If you could give me one point on the before, the during, and the after.

[00:51:21] Educate, educate, educate, educate yourself more than ever. Today's consumer, 56% of the buyers are millennial. Highly educated, high income, high expectation, driven by the information on their smartphone. They love reviews. They love to brag about, I made the best choice the right choice. You're smiling. You're one of those probably. And educate yourself. Have the right mindset and attitude.

[00:51:50] Stop paying attention to the noise. Focus, focus, focus, focus. Perfect one or two skill set. Yes. The future of this industry is how we deal with the emotional intelligence of the consumers. They are emotional. They wake up one morning, they hear the news about the Trump, I'm not buying. They hear the interest rate goes up, I'm not selling. Or panic, they sell.

[00:52:14] If you can connect, perfect your skill set, connect the emotional intelligence of the human behavior with the data driven intelligence, which is your knowledge. You manage all the objection. So before, during and after, it's an easy road for you. But we fail. We think because we got a license and we just get bits and pieces of the information.

[00:52:41] We are master the art of being a realtor. I've been doing this for 28 years, going to 29. Every day I wake up and I ask myself, oh my God, I learned this. That's why I follow probably 50 people on a social media, but I follow people that they interest me. Economic, information, regulatory issues. Even people who challenge. Daniel is one of those. I love it when he challenge.

[00:53:12] Contrarian. Contrarian, yes. So, and sometimes I look at it, I said, oh, maybe he's pushing the limit too much. But that's okay. You want to see somebody who is pushing the limit. But the most important thing that I like, I like to read those comments. Because the comments will tell me how the market is. Where the sentiment is. Where the sentiment is. How the comment, those are the emotional intelligence, the behavior. Oh, Daniel, you're offside. Oh, no, Daniel, well done.

[00:53:40] So, from those information, then you can really prepare a plan for yourself. I think that is an amazing piece of advice. Extreme wisdom. I don't have any other questions. Steve, if anyone wants to work with you, join the team, buy a home from one of your thousands of agents. Where can we find out more about you or get in touch with you? Remax Hallmark.com. My phone number is very easy. 416-561-9111. Why I call it 9111? 911. It's an emergency.

[00:54:09] I need a help, Steve. You need a help. You call me. More than happy. It's not about joining us. If you need advice. If you need help. If you need some, just talk to someone. And I think the leadership in our industry owes it in today's market to be more direct, to more transparent, to more straightforward, to tell the truth. We can't fake it anymore. I love that. And I think that's the first phone number we've ever gotten on the podcast, too. So, thank you for that, Steve. An absolute pleasure.

[00:54:39] We could probably sit here and talk all day. But you are a very busy man because you've got thousands of agents that are waiting for you to go motivate them. So, go do that. And thank you so much for grace. Thank you very much. With your presence today. It was a pleasure. The content of this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not intended as financial, legal, or investment advice. Always consult a qualified professional for advice tailored to your unique circumstances. The views expressed are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of affiliated organizations.

[00:55:08] Daniel Foch is a real estate broker licensed with Valerie Real Estate Inc. Website is Valerie.ca. V-A-L-E-R-Y.ca. And a member of the Canadian Real Estate Association, the Ontario Real Estate Association, and the Toronto Real Estate Board. Nick Hill is a mortgage agent and partner at OWL. Mortgage license number 10317. Agent license M21004037. treats the comfort to your church. Actions M210047. Thank you.