How The Government Can Improve Housing Affordability

[00:00:00] Welcome to The Canadian Real Estate Investor, where hosts Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio. We are in City Hall today, which I got to admit does not look as cool on the inside as it does on the outside here in Toronto.

[00:00:20] Very famous building and I am lucky enough to be sitting across from Councillor Brad Bradford, a well-known housing advocate and leader in the space here in Toronto and Ontario, quite frankly. Brad, for those of you who don't know you, we do have a national audience here. For those of you who don't know you and why you're so involved in this particular subject matter, tell us a bit about yourself. I'll keep it short and sweet, but I will say long time listener, first time caller.

[00:00:50] It's great to be here with you, Nick. Thank you so much. My background is in urban planning. I worked in the private sector at a consulting firm on projects across Canada, particularly in the transit space. I went down to Boston, Massachusetts, did community energy planning for a few years, and then came back to the city of Toronto and landed in the chief planner's office. So I was literally a bureaucrat here at City Hall, and that was my first exposure to local government and all the fantastic people that work here.

[00:01:17] But it was also my first exposure to, you know, the big bureaucracy, the culture of fear, the propensity for indecision, and a lot of the challenges in the roadblocks that were standing in the way of creating more housing, which was my passion. You know, I'm a 1986 model in my 39th year. So it's a lot of my friends and colleagues and family members that experience the housing challenges and getting into the market most acutely.

[00:01:46] And certainly I hear about that every day. So back in 2018, you know, after complaining about it for a while, being middle management with no direct reports, very, very bureaucratic. I decided, you know what, stop complaining, put your hand up, run for office, try and make it better. And I was very naive to politics. I had no idea. We weren't a political family growing up. I had a single mom who raised three kids on her own, grew up in Hamilton.

[00:02:11] We didn't have a lot of money, never had a political lawn sign up at the house, but we had dinner table politics. And now there's political lawn signs with your face on them. Yeah. Yeah. And apologies to everybody who has to take one. But yeah, so you know what, I, we went to 50,000 doors that day, that summer in that campaign. And on election night, 37,000 votes were cast and we won by 286.

[00:02:35] So we were running against a former NDP member of parliament that had a lot of name rack and resources and everything behind him. And people didn't necessarily see us coming, but I was fortunate to have just fantastic people around me and volunteers. And, and again, folks in that sort of generational urbanist and community building space that said like, let's get behind this guy. And you know, every day I'm in this, this position with an opportunity to create change. You know, you think about the people that help you get there and you're grateful. Yeah.

[00:03:05] Fantastic. I mean, you've, you've got a great amount of experience in both the public and private sector being on both sides of it and, and kind of not being a, by any stretch of the imagination, a career politician. You've, you've sat on, on the other side and now you're kind of in here looking back out and probably the problems that we are experiencing are even more apparent on, on, on the position right now. Let's start talking about a few of those issues, Brad. I don't even know where to start here.

[00:03:33] Maybe, maybe development charges or, or housing starts that are, that are down in, in our major cities. Why don't we start with development charges and then work our way into some of the, the other issues. Tell us about your experience with development charges and the frustration that you've heard from the development community that I know you speak to and are, and are quite involved in here in the GTHA, the greater Toronto and Hamilton area. Yeah. And, and essentially I probably just throw Southern Ontario into that mix as well. Correct?

[00:04:03] Yeah. No, I, I think it's, it's similar challenges across the board. We've seen other municipalities like Vaughan and Mississauga really demonstrate some leadership on DC reductions. Um, we're not seeing that yet here at the city of Toronto, but we can always hope for better. Look at the end of the day, the challenge with housing is principally one of affordability. The biggest bill that everybody pays each month is the rent or their mortgage.

[00:04:28] And so when 30% of the cost of the unit of housing in this city is related to the taxes, the development charges, the fees, government certainly does have a role, uh, in, in reducing those expenses, helping to improve affordability. And I think that's one of the best things that we can do. The tendency for governments to rely on development charges, I think is a reflection of the inclination to hold the line on property taxes.

[00:04:56] And certainly we saw that here, uh, with the previous administration. Um, the, the new administration of course is, is much more, um, open to raising taxes. And we've seen that over the past couple of years that brings other challenges, but I think the development charge bucket ultimately became a catchall for any sort of expense under the sun that we can put in there. Uh, you know, you had development charges that were paying for studies about development charges.

[00:05:22] And that, that kind of gets away from the sort of the fundamental premise of basic infrastructure, you know, to, to build out our city and to keep the trains running and to keep people moving. So that, that's led to an increase here in the past 10 years of 405% increase in the cost of development charges. Um, you know, you go back further and that number gets even higher. And, um, I think the other frustration when it comes to all the development density that's coming online here is we haven't seen those dollars go out the door.

[00:05:52] To build the infrastructure that we need to support the housing. And I know anyone who's, you know, involved in development side or, or folks who are living in midtown and can't get their kids into the schools. Cause there are no schools or the, the TTC that is constantly breaking down and unreliable, uh, or the transit that we talk about and hope to see that that never opens.

[00:06:12] And, uh, these are the frustrations and, you know, the development community rightly points out that the city of Toronto is sitting on over $3 billion and another, uh, in development charge reserve account and another billion in parkland dedication. And, uh, the costs continue to go up, but those projects and our procurement is so slow. We're not getting those projects out the door and deliver for the community. So that's, we got to rethink the development charge equation.

[00:06:37] And, uh, I think if it all comes back to affordability, um, there's a lot that we can do with that 30% of the cost of the unit of housing where, where we could take some of that on our, our, our, our end as the local government to, to make it more affordable. Wow. I don't even know where to start there. I, I, first of all, I guess there's, we've all heard these terms, boy math and girl math. I guess there's government math as well. So it sounds like a, a negative feedback loop, right?

[00:07:05] Development charges to pay for studies on development charges, which are costing more and more. And, and then I'm happy we started the conversation here because it sounds like development charges really are. I mean, it goes further back when you start to look at the infrastructure issues, which, which are Canada wide in a lot of cases. Um, not just, not just here in Toronto, but infrastructure is an issue. Development charges to try to pay for that stuff becomes a more of an issue.

[00:07:29] And then that has now stalled or, or, or plummeted, uh, the, the housing starts in, in some of these major markets that need it most. And that is just going to exacerbate the issue. Why do you think we've seen, do you think those are directly correlated? Like, is that why we've seen specifically Toronto and Vancouver plummet when it comes like 68% in Toronto year over year and 48% in Vancouver? Those are not small numbers. Those are pretty alarming numbers, right?

[00:07:54] And this basically from my understanding means that we're just kicking this housing crisis a few years down the road and lengthening the, the outlook of this whole thing. Am I correct to assume that? That's, that's where we're headed. And, you know, fundamentally it starts with the premise that has been dogmatic in planning circles for as long as I've been doing this, uh, where growth pays for growth. Yeah. And that, that really is the sort of. That used to be the, the, the line, right? Yeah.

[00:08:21] Everybody, politicians and planners alike, bureaucrats would say, well, growth has to pay for growth. And that assumes a, a linear correlation with one new unit of housing has X amount of demand on infrastructure. Um, and the costs associated with that. And, and of course we know that not to be true. And then you really get into challenges when you start to look at the changes that I've been leading here at the city hall on missing middle and multiplexes.

[00:08:44] And, you know, the development charge regime associated with those, the challenges that we have with accessory dwelling units, triggering development charges on, you know, as soon as you go over four, uh, to five units, um, every unit's paying a development charge rather than just the one additional unit. Those are basic things to clean up. And that's why, um, you know, we should be optimistic. I have moved motions to do that, but of course, uh, you know, my colleagues fight me on it and it's probably going to take another year to get that sorted out.

[00:09:12] But I think, um, you know, it, it, the moment that we're having right now is, is one for reflection. And I would also say concern because you're right. Housing starts here in the city of Toronto are down 68% year over year. And we cannot let the prologue of this city and others. It's not indicative of what the future is going to be. We've benefited from a tremendous amount of growth and investment here in Toronto.

[00:09:40] Um, you know, we always like to beat our chest and talk about how we have more cranes in the sky than anywhere else in North America. But the reality today is the cranes that you see right now, once they come down, they're not going back up. Yeah. And I think if you forecast towards 2027, 2028, we are in fact sowing the seeds of a housing crisis like we haven't seen before because literally no new projects are starting. Like we, we might have less than five projects break ground next year.

[00:10:10] And so the demand's not going anywhere. And you know, the challenges with respect to affordability and interest rates, which are starting to soften, that's not going to be a problem. Um, the same degree it was the past few years. So we're looking at, you know, last check 25,000 units or so, uh, that need to be absorbed in the market here. Maybe that's 12 to 18 months. But once those units are picked up and absorbed, there will be literally nothing coming online when you hit 27, 2028, 2029.

[00:10:38] And so the challenge with government, of course, is we are reactive, not proactive. We're very slow to respond. The city of Toronto, perhaps much more than most municipalities. And we're just not doing the things that we need to do today to make the math pencil on these projects.

[00:10:54] And I would say from my experience, you know, private sector, and then within the city and now in politics, the biggest challenge is that the folks that are holding the pen on our, on our policy stuff, whether that is planning staff or folks in, um, you know, finance department, uh, people in the different divisions that weigh in on projects and, and would come comment and contribute to the development charge discussion. They are really removed from the, uh, awareness of financial viability of a project.

[00:11:21] And so, um, it's great to use development charges as a catch all bug bucket where we can build up a $3 billion reserve and another billion for parkland. But if we do not have an eye towards financial viability of projects, the projects just stop. And, you know, all of our planning policy, whether we're talking about angular planes or setbacks or type G loading requirements, all of these sorts of things. It's death by a thousand cuts.

[00:11:46] And I think it would be really prudent if the staff that were writing the policies here had a better understanding of how to drive a performa, how to use Excel, what makes a project actually work so that we could have practical conversations about how do we unlock the housing that we all want to see, but also doing it with a lens to make sure that the projects are financeable, uh, so that they can actually get built. Really good stuff. Before I forget, cause you said a couple of things there that I want to touch on one, and we're going to circle back to both of these.

[00:12:14] I want to talk about the role of policy and how important that is, not just here, but across the country. I want to talk about the financial viability of a project because it's not getting done without the finances, but I want to just zone in on one thing you said there that we are setting ourselves up for an unprecedented housing crisis. Which for me is, you know, I, I guess I'm more privy to this than most, but for people listening, they might be thinking, what the hell are these guys talking about?

[00:12:43] Look, we are in an unprecedented housing crisis right now, but we are doing such a bad job at trying to fix it. We're actually going to make it exponentially worse in the very near future. And that's strictly because we're just not doing anything about it right now because financial, the financial instruments aren't there to make it happen. And because policy is so restrictive. Well, and, and it's pretty simple.

[00:13:06] If we operate on the assumption that Toronto needs to add, you know, has a demand of 18 to 25,000 units of housing a year, and we're not delivering any, I mean, that's it, right? Like, so. That is not government math. That's math. That's just the math math. And so the very fact that there are almost no projects starting right now and next year will be even worse. Just forecast that, you know, 12, 18, 24 months beyond that, like how long does it take to build a condo? You know, that's the sort of two-year time horizon.

[00:13:36] Nothing started. And so that problem just gets exponentially worse. If we're not continually adding new supply, the demand is not dissipating. And we can talk about sort of some of the tweaks that the federal government's made on immigration and things of that nature. But, you know, we're not talking about half a million people. We're talking about 20,000 units.

[00:13:56] And if those units are not being developed today, if we're not breaking ground today, then we can't expect to see them just sort of, you know, be plopped down on a map out of the sky in two or three years from now. And so that's actually what's happening. And people think about, you know, you talk to real estate agents and they're, you know, rightfully having a hard time moving the units today. But that's the only supply that we have.

[00:14:21] And once that's gone, and it will be gone because the premise and the fundamentals of Toronto is still a fantastic city to invest, still a great city to be. People want to be here. So those will get absorbed. And then after that, there's nothing new starting. It's so funny because people have been asking for this. I mean, Brad, you've been in the trenches. People have been asking for lower interest rates. You know, I was just on the news the other day talking about the double digit decreases in home prices and sale activity here in the GTHA.

[00:14:51] Now, again, clarifying this for everyone listening across the country. These are very Toronto-esque problems, not the development charges and certain other, obviously, housing crisis is national. But what we're talking about, some of these are very Toronto-centric problems, right? So we're not building condos right now. Very apparent, very distressing. What are we doing that's positive, right? I mean, you've been very involved in things, as you said, like Missy Middle, which maybe I'll let you clarify what that is in a second here.

[00:15:20] Missy Middle, we just had CMHC release their housing catalog for multiplexes, ADUs, laneway homes. Obviously, this is a step in the right direction. Is it a tiptoe in the right direction or is it a leap in the right direction? What's your take on these new housing typologies that are maybe going to offset a little bit of the damage being done by not having any condos being built? I think it's really exciting. And I think it is a cause for optimism.

[00:15:48] The way I look at it is we're setting the table now. We're setting the table for the future. When I was chair of the Planning and Housing Committee here at the City of Toronto, I led on something called the Expanding Housing Options and Neighborhoods Program. EHAWN. Yes, right. Great acronym. Rolls off the tongue for everybody. Everyone understands it. Yeah, but the fundamental idea that we're trying to provide more housing options for more people in more neighborhoods, that's what it boils down to.

[00:16:18] We amalgamated and our first consolidated official plan was drafted in 2003. And it was really this sort of grand bargain proposition that said we will direct all of the growth to the urban centers and along the avenues. We'll have more of a mid-rise form and we will leave the neighborhoods alone. Well, the neighborhoods and the R designation, residential zoning designation, constituted 60 plus percentage of the residential zoning in the City of Toronto, the RD designation.

[00:16:48] And so that meant actually huge swaths of the 640 square kilometers that we have here in the City of Toronto were off limits for anything other than a single detached house. So that was kind of, in my view, retrospectively sort of the foundation of how the city evolved and also the challenges and pressures that we're dealing with today. We had a chief planner for a period of time, 2015, 2016, 2017, and we were going to be the mid-rise city. You know, we were going to be like Paris or Washington, D.C.

[00:17:17] Yeah, well, except that the policies and the urban design guidelines and the guidelines which we interpret as if they are written in stone laws, regulations, made it so expensive and so prohibitive to build these things. People sort of looked at the value proposition of it from a development perspective and said, it's going to take me as much time and energy and money on studies to build a six-story building as a 60-story building. So what do they do? They build the 60-story building.

[00:17:44] And our urban form here in the city has really reflected that. And that's why I always go back to financial viability. You know, the amount of studies and time and energy and effort that was required to build a mid-rise building was disproportionate to the return. And as a result, nobody did it. And so I think in that period of time where, again, we take a victory lap on all the development and investment that we've had here in the City of Toronto,

[00:18:09] we've only had like 120 mid-rise buildings built over the past decade. Yeah, not time to rest on the laurels just yet. Right, right. So Ehan was really about, okay, let's go back to the exclusionary zoning. Let's go back to the restrictive RD, residential detached. And how can we add some gentle density? How can we add a form that is still in keeping with the vibe and the characteristics, I suppose, of that neighborhood, but adds for some modest intensification? And that is the multiplex.

[00:18:36] That is the ADUs, whether that is a garden suite or a laneway suite. And it's this idea that you can have that more sort of two-, three-, four-story apartment in a neighborhood and actually can be very desirable. And the funny thing is for all of the sort of upheaval and unrest about this, some of the most desirable neighborhoods in the city have had this for 100 years. You know, talking about places like the annex or the beaches that I represent.

[00:19:04] And, you know, we've had this stuff for a century here and it's – Little Italy, little Portugal. Yeah, and it's been phenomenal. So – All over on the west side there, yeah. So all this stuff, the Ehan program, the missing middle, the changes, you know, to our major streets, our avenues policies, things that are going to unlock more mid-rise. The fact that I was able to sort of get rid of the angular plane effectively here in the city of Toronto. Thank you for that. Make things more viable from a financial perspective to build.

[00:19:32] That's why I'm optimistic because we are setting the table. And I think particularly with the multiplex, we're opening up an opportunity for a new class of investors. And investment is sometimes a dirty word in policy circles and certainly in the housing advocacy space. But that, of course, fails to recognize the fact that none of these projects are financeable if you don't have people making investments, right? And it's not going to be the government. And this country is not built on that.

[00:20:00] So we do need to have financially viable projects that have investors making a contribution and are financeable. And the banks are not going to finance projects that are losing money. So missing middle stuff opens up an opportunity for different folks to take advantage of property that they might already have, bring a higher, better use to it, more housing in the process. Or, you know, a couple of friends getting together to go in on a project. And it's not the big guys that are going to be doing that.

[00:20:30] It's a whole new class of builders and investors. And I think that's a great opportunity to have people get involved in the real estate game. And, you know, hopefully they can make some money because that's actually a positive thing. We shouldn't be negative about that. That's good for the economy, everybody. That's a good thing. Yeah. We should celebrate that and find ways for more people to make more money. I think that's positive. And it also brings on more housing in our neighborhoods. And that's a really good thing, too. So I want to tell you a quick story here that really, I think, relates to some of the stuff you're saying, right?

[00:20:58] So the public and private sector both have their hands in housing. And we've seen that private sector, some of the big, big players, let's say BlackRock, for instance, right? This is more of a story out of the States, but we've seen it, you know, creep up into Canada. And there's been a lot of pushback for the small cap investor, right? Someone like me, for instance, that owns several small multifamily properties.

[00:21:24] I provide a great service to my tenants and they provide me rent for it, okay? Now, a lot of these small cap landlords have been demonized in the last few years for financializing the housing system or whatever else you want to call it. But let me ask you a question. Would you rather have me or BlackRock as your landlord? Because whether we like it or not, the Western world, primarily the States and Canada at actually a faster pace, is becoming more of a renter's economy.

[00:21:53] Now, when I own a property and I rent it, my tenant didn't pay rent at the beginning of the month. They were actually two weeks late. But guess what? I'm a human. I have empathy. We had a chat about it. No official papers were signed. It was a quick negotiation back and forth. And I got that. And I got the money eventually. Now, do you think that they would have been able to call BlackRock and explain their situation there? No.

[00:22:15] So, the small cap investor, these citizen developers, these few friends getting together, these, you know, a contractor and a lawyer or whatever it may be, or just a couple people with money that are looking to maybe divest and buy something in Toronto because they know that they're never leaving the city or some of their families never leaving. That presents an amazing opportunity from so many different angles. We're empowering a whole new class of investor, as you said.

[00:22:40] We're creating work in the trade space and the planning departments and the architecture firms of the city. And we're providing new and different places to live as an end result through all of that. Yeah. And I think that's a positive thing, right? And so, the stigmatization of people who build housing, the stigmatization of people who are in real estate, I think that's very unhelpful. And sometimes politics has a tendency to weaponize that.

[00:23:04] You know, you see that with programs like foreign buyer taxes that actually have not produced the policy outcomes that they were suggested that they would. And again, like the condo market here in Toronto is stagnant. No new projects are starting. So, ask the question why? Well, if you have to get 70%, 80% presale before you can get your financing for your construction loan, the investor proposition isn't there anymore. And so, or it hasn't been. And so, that's why people are not investing in it.

[00:23:33] And so, you know, from a policy perspective, we've, you know, vacant home tax. Like we've beat up on all these people that have historically been critical front-end investors to make housing projects happen. We can talk about whether or not it's good that the condo market has been the pseudo rental market here in Toronto. You can have a conversation about that. We probably end up at rent control. But the reality is that that's how it's been for the, you know, past 20, 30 years.

[00:23:56] And I would suggest that it's actually a far worse outcome to have no new housing starts than to have people investing their money in a section of the economy that contributes to roughly 20% of Ontario's GDP that keeps people employed and provides that, you know, that vital necessity that we all need, which is a place to call home in a fantastic city where people want to be. So, we really do need to reorient our mindset around the housing discussion, around people who invest in housing.

[00:24:24] And I just, you know, wholeheartedly reject the notion that people who build housing are fundamentally bad. People who invest in real estate are, you know, terrible people. I reject that because we need those people and it needs to continue to be a stable and attractive investment because, you know, capital is fluid and people are going to put their money where it makes sense.

[00:24:49] And government's role is to, you know, reduce those regulations, make it easier and more attractive to be an investor, to be a builder so that we can accomplish the policy goal of having more housing for more people. And also growing our economy and keeping people employed. Those are good things. All very good things. Okay. I've got one final kind of question or discussion prompt, if you will. I want to – you're very up to date on all of these matters.

[00:25:18] I know we're both in the city of Toronto right now. Obviously, this is where a lot of your expertise lies. Let's try to have fun with this and put it across the country, even though I know that certain markets are – I mean, Toronto is a very much an outlier when it comes to, you know, trying to compare it to a Halifax or a Winnipeg or a Saskatoon is a fool's errand, right? However, Toronto can be a leading indicator for certain things.

[00:25:43] Let's have a theoretical discussion on the best case scenario moving forward. But first, because I like to finish with something positive here. So, let's start with a potential worst case scenario, right? What are – you know, everyone – like we don't have a crystal ball here. No shit. Everyone wants to know what the next two, three years looks like, right? We've seen interest rates up and down. We've seen inflation kind of come up and down a little bit. We're now in the midst. I knew – I was trying not to say this, but you can't help it these days.

[00:26:12] The trade war, the tariffs at all. The T word. The T word, the bad T word. All – I mean, the world is a volatile place right now, right? Like Canada, especially volatile and subject to a lot more of this stuff than we maybe ever thought we would be. I never thought we'd be in a trade war with our direct neighbor here. Let's start with – and again, not even just that, but let's – like the renewal wall of mortgages coming up in the next two years.

[00:26:39] Most of whom are going to be paying higher rates, higher monthly or biweekly rates. And then as we – as you were just saying, the condo disaster that we're walking into in the next couple of years. So, again, this is all theoretical, everybody. What is the worst case that you can see realistically playing out? And then let's have some fun. We'll finish it off with a pause note of the best case scenario moving forward because I think you and I are both eternal optimists here. I don't think you'd be – You have to be. You have to be, right? I don't think you'd – there's a great quote from Winston Churchill.

[00:27:08] I'm not going to be able to remember, but it was like a pessimist find – do you know what I'm talking about? Oh, man. I shouldn't even brought it up. But it's like – it's something like optimists find the right thing. Anyways. There's a great statue of Churchill out here at City Hall. Okay. And I hope they don't remove it. Okay, good. Good. Well, we'll keep it there. Worst case, how, why, when? Give me some – give me some – Well, look, here it is.

[00:27:33] Like, you know, the biggest risk to the city of Toronto and other major centers across the country is that the people who are taking risks, making investment, creating jobs, adding to our GDP and productivity, that they leave our urban centers in a flight for affordability. And the Board of Trade here in Toronto has some numbers on that, you know, 200,000 people left the city over the past two years. And that's a – you know, we always talk about the growth and immigration and people who are coming here.

[00:28:03] But the people are leaving are the entrepreneurs, the risk takers, the families, the people that are so essential to making our economy function. That brain drain we hear about. Yeah.

[00:28:44] And housing that people can't –

[00:29:14] We have a lot of ways to dramatically increase the supply on a go-forward basis. We will continue to have a drain of talent here in Toronto. And, you know, I think that could be the case for a lot of major urban centers here across the country. So, you have to be mindful of that.

[00:29:28] And policymakers and policymakers and elected officials and folks in leadership positions need to be laser focused on making sure we can still be a place where middle class, for lack of better term, but those folks that drive our economy, that make the big bets, that, you know, bring their time, their talent, their treasure to start businesses, to create jobs, that those people have a place in the city of Toronto and other major centers.

[00:29:51] If we can't get that right, then, you know, then the future and the value prop of places like Toronto starts to slip away. Yeah. Yeah. I completely agree. I mean, it's a scary thought to think that things can get a lot worse. I think things maybe can get a little bit worse. And I think we might experience that for the remainder of this year. I do hope and I do have faith in Canadians that, you know, we are a hardworking group of people.

[00:30:21] And, again, us being both eternal optimists, that's where my head goes. So, on that note, before I do that, though, I did pull up this quote here because I didn't want to butcher it and leave it. So, a pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity and an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty. Yeah, that's right. That's Churchill, eh? That's good stuff. Yeah. Did I say Churchill? You did. Yeah. One of the great orators. Yes, exactly. He had a lot of good ones.

[00:30:45] And I don't know if it was a Churchill one, but the other – another one, you know, victory has many fathers and defeat is an orphan. So, there you go. Yeah. Right? Wish I could come up with the worst that sounded that good together. I'm a podcaster and I can't even do that. Okay. So, I agree. I think that, like, getting worse looks like, you know, less cranes in the sky, which affects the construction industry, which affects the planning industry.

[00:31:08] And it's just that trickle down effect that we see really spread into the economy because it is also connected, right? So, all right. Let's flip the switch here. Let me tell you what's good. Yes. Tell me what is good, please. What's good is the fundamentals of this country are still sound.

[00:31:25] We are one of the potentially wealthiest nations, the envy of countries around the world where you look at our mineral resources, our energy resources, the opportunity to bring those to market in a much more bullish fashion. That's very exciting. You know, great healthcare, great education, liberal democracy with strong democratic values. And again, you know, for a long time, I think we all took these things for granted, but there are events that are happening right now that would call into question those assumptions.

[00:31:53] But those assumptions are still rock solid here in this country. And we're all united on that. When it comes to housing and the housing sector, government has been the author of many of these problems. And so, the good news is we can also fix that. You know, we've kind of made our bed and we have to lay in it, but also I'm optimistic that there are things that we can do that would be really helpful to get more shovels in the ground. And fundamentally, it is, you know, reducing the taxes.

[00:32:20] It is reducing the red tape, the regulation, getting things done faster. And those are all things with a, you know, sort of optimistic outlook, a commitment to doing things differently, the rejection of the status quo. Those are all things that we can tackle. Difficult to do in a bureaucratic environment where there is a deeply embedded culture of fear of trying new things. But at the same time, you know, chaos is a ladder. Crisis and adversity shows our resilience, tests our character.

[00:32:48] And I just have to, you know, believe that continuing to do the same thing over and over again is not going to be what fixes it. I also believe that, you know, the folks who have been holding the pen for the last 20 years and again, the author of many of these challenges are probably not the right people to fix it either. So, look, let's start with reducing the taxes and the fees, the development charges. Let's acknowledge that 30% of the cost of a unit of housing is in fact, you know, laid on there by the government.

[00:33:16] Are there things that we can do to reduce those fees and make sure that it gets passed on to consumers? Are there ways that we can improve our procurement timelines to get those infrastructure projects that support the growth out the door faster so that we don't have a $3 billion reserve development charge account sitting in there with $6 billion of expenses attached to it?

[00:33:36] And then fundamentally, I think young people, folks who are looking to get into the real estate market can be optimistic because, you know, it's 2025 and we're looking at like 2015 prices right now. And so, you know, buy the dip if you can, you know, put your your shackles together. Now is a great time to go in and there's a ton of value out there on, you know, even 10, 15 year old condominiums where you're going to get a bigger unit.

[00:34:01] You've sort of seen a stabilization in the in the condo fees in older buildings like that. And there's a lot of value. And again, if you're bullish on Toronto like I am and our other major metros across this country, those are still going to be great places. Buy a good unit with a good layout. Not the ones that are like a hallway where you can touch either side of a wall when you spread your arms. Get those for the Airbnb. Yeah, but buy a good unit in a great neighborhood and there's value in that.

[00:34:30] And there's tremendous value right now where the market is. And on the other side of that, I think you'd be very pleased with that investment. Couldn't agree more. Counselor Brad Bradford, thank you so much for having us in your house, a.k.a. City Hall today. Really appreciate what you're doing for the community. Really appreciate you giving us the time today to share your wisdom and insights. And we ended on a positive note. So it's always darkest before the dawn.

[00:34:54] Remember that I completely agree with you, Brad, that Canada has unlimited potential if we can tap into it in a responsible manner where it be a win-win-win for every single Canadian. So on that note, thank you again and we'll see you soon. Thanks, man. The content of this podcast is for educational and informational purposes only. It is not intended as financial, legal, or investment advice. Always consult a qualified professional for advice tailored to your unique circumstances.

[00:35:22] The views expressed are those of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of affiliated organizations. Daniel Foch is a real estate broker licensed with Valerie Real Estate Inc. Website is Valerie.ca, V-A-L-E-R-Y.ca. And a member of the Canadian Real Estate Association, the Ontario Real Estate Association, and the Toronto Real Estate Board.

[00:35:46] Nick Hill is a mortgage agent and partner at OWL Mortgage License Number 10317, Agent License M21004037.