Finding & Renovating Cheap Old Houses

[00:00:00] Welcome to the Canadian Real Estate Investor, where host Daniel Foch and Nick Hill navigate the market and provide the tools and insights to build your real estate portfolio.

[00:00:13] Welcome to this captivating exploration of hidden gems in the world of real estate, where the past meets the present in thrilling and unexpected ways.

[00:00:24] Imagine scrolling through a time machine with beautiful old architecture for God and history and endless potential, all captured within the walls of homes that many have overlooked.

[00:00:37] This is the enchanting universe of cheap old houses, a phenomena that began humbly and has grown into a national sensation, captivating millions on social media with each vintage, door knob and weathered port swing.

[00:00:53] Thank you between into another episode of the Canadian Real Estate Investor podcast, Canada's number 1 real estate podcast, my name is Nick Hill,

[00:01:03] and I am Daniel Foch and today we are joined by two very special guests.

[00:01:08] Now you may know Ethan and Elizabeth from one of their many very successful TV shows, or you may be one of their 4 million followers on social media.

[00:01:18] Or you may be subscribed to one of their many newsletters.

[00:01:23] But today we have them on to discuss how this journey began and why these forgotten homes seem to resonate so deeply with them.

[00:01:33] With a nod to both preservation and innovation, we'll uncover the story of cheap old houses from its modest origins to its impressive national and now inter-national expansion.

[00:01:46] We'll explore the allure of these historical treasures and delve into the art of the restoration process and consider what it takes to breathe new life into these aging beauties.

[00:01:59] So whether you're an inspiring, aspiring homeowner, a seasoned investor or simply enamored with architectural nostalgia, this episode promises to open doors to a world where every creaky floorboard whisper secrets of the past.

[00:02:14] So join us as we embark on a journey that proves sometimes the best investments are found in the stories of old.

[00:02:22] Now without further ado, let's bring in Ethan and Elizabeth.

[00:02:27] Like with any great idea people always want to know how did you get started? Can you describe your origin story for us?

[00:02:35] What was the involvement with real estate or the desire to get involved with real estate before your success with cheap old houses?

[00:02:44] Welcome to the show Ethan and Elizabeth.

[00:02:47] Super happy to have you guys here.

[00:02:49] Thank you, Nick. We are excited to be here.

[00:02:51] Thanks, Nick. Yeah, no we're super excited to be on with you and talk about cheap old houses.

[00:02:57] You know what it comes to all of this? I think we are really our own target audience. We are kind of the every man.

[00:03:03] We spend a little time living in New York City, which I think puts us in the general people who live in New York City talk about real estate nonstop.

[00:03:12] But I think it's just something that's always fascinated us back to our origins of my growing up at an old house.

[00:03:20] Ethan's grandmother, Ethan's mother was raised on a 200 acre farm house in New Hampshire from the 1700s.

[00:03:28] And I think the house I was raised in that was a cheap old house that my parents restored as I was growing up.

[00:03:32] And that house really kind of just instilled in our blood early on the meaning of home, the meaning of house, the meaning of restoration and sort of self expression through that.

[00:03:42] We got into real estate, I guess, through the lens of old houses in a way and through the lens of realizing that there's a pain point going on in this country in Canada.

[00:03:55] People just can't afford houses. And we realize that not many people were taking the notion of you could you can combine the idea that nobody back up.

[00:04:09] People can't afford houses and yet there's a crisis going on. People are also there's tons of houses that are available, that are beautiful.

[00:04:16] It's restoring history, it's using your hands. It's so many sort of wonderful things for the environment for sustainability for your pocketbook for all of these things can kind of come together.

[00:04:28] And we sort of saw that, people houses could be an interesting answer to this real estate crisis that we're all living in.

[00:04:34] I think when we were, you know, we're young creative professionals and I think we, you know, both Elizabeth and I were looking for office space really was one of the first stories that we had had looking for spaces.

[00:04:48] We were renting in New York City and then we were renting office spaces. And, you know, one of the kind of early businesses in real estate that we had generated was, I would rent office desks to people other creative folks.

[00:05:02] And I, you know, we got up to like 3,000 square feet of office space and then rented a bunch of desks at different creative professionals. So it was before we work kind of really took hold.

[00:05:14] Very old.

[00:05:15] Yes, so that was kind of like because we were literally just trying to house hack any real estate for that matter.

[00:05:24] But, you know, literally when Elizabeth and I first met, I was house hacking living in a living room in a two bedroom apartment.

[00:05:33] Like, you were living by the divider.

[00:05:35] But this is what it takes to live in some of our expensive cities right now. You know, unless you're making, I mean at that time I remember thinking if I just made 80,000 dollars a year, I could survive. Now I think it's, you know, that's just seems like you could hardly live on.

[00:05:51] I mean, truly in New York City. So I think so many people feel that way and it's no surprise that our audience really comes, you know, is looking at us, you know, from Austin Portland, LA near city.

[00:06:07] Some of these very, very over-price cities because they're feeling the Paul.

[00:06:11] So we are the, as Elizabeth said, the every man looking at this with not, you know, sort of investor money behind us or anything. And we've kind of built our little mini empire, you know, just off of a lot of hard work and many years of literally posting cheap old houses on Instagram.

[00:06:31] And I think there's, I don't know how many you've now posted. It is probably a few thousand. Oh, at least.

[00:06:38] What is that consistency for us on the Graham anyway? That's kind of gotten us here.

[00:06:46] Yeah, I, I feel like I've looked at like a thousand houses on your, on your page. So there's got to be quite a few more.

[00:06:55] You know, it's, it's interesting. Like it sounds like you're really solving for a problem that you had, which is it's nice because as a business person, you know, creating a business out of that. It's really genuine.

[00:07:05] Like people can really connect with your brand story. Anyone who's also consuming the product that you're creating, they're like, oh wow, these people are exactly like me and I really resonate with them. And then you kind of start to build a community and a lot of it ends up being storytelling. And I know Nick had put in the script here, like kind of a question about this storytelling.

[00:07:25] One of the things I like, the, the only homes that I've ever owned and lived in are century homes. Honestly. And one was like an old military house that was built during World War One.

[00:07:37] And it was like those sears kit houses, but it was slapped together by the military in the middle of World War One by a bunch of soldiers. So it wasn't very the craftsmanship was not, it wasn't a good sears kit house.

[00:07:47] And then my current one was in 18, 18, 50s, 18, 60s home, which I was mentioning to you guys before the show. The point that, you know, here is that like all of these homes have such a fascinating story and Canada, we have like these heritage plaques on a lot of these homes where you can go and look up the story of these houses.

[00:08:04] And so while I think you're guys story is fascinating and important, I think the story of the houses is a big piece that you're trying to tell and protect, you know, you mentioned on the site, saving some of these houses from a wrecking ball.

[00:08:16] So as soon as that house is gone, that's a part of history that's lost really right. On that note, do you have a favorite house story? One that, you know, it was the story that you had or the story that it had in the past that you could tell us?

[00:08:28] A favorite story. Trying to look like a sound. I feel like okay, so we just got off a call yesterday with these folks Duncan manner. This is a story that's featured in our book. They were featured in our first show on HETV and Randy and Dave really took this house that was falling down to Creppard house with no roof.

[00:08:56] Huge mansion on 6,000 square feet. I was going to say you're calling it a house. I mean this is a piece that this is a giant Italianate mansion rising out of a field in Tawanda, Illinois on the last soybean field and then this house just comes out. I mean it's it's other worldly.

[00:09:14] It's on the corner of Dead Man's curve on Route 66, no joke in Illinois. And it was made, you know this gentleman who was I think he was a ox farmer or you know, cattleman and he

[00:09:29] was near a railroad so it was able to get his cattle I guess wherever he wanted or needed. And you know we're going to know a lot more about the story. We're going to go there in this month in September and we're just really excited to have their 10 year celebration with them of being in the house. So they took this house that was in Indiana, Illinois. Illinois, I'm sorry.

[00:09:54] It was on the top 10 most endangered houses in Illinois for.

[00:09:59] That is a cool list. They camped out on the porch for a month or sorry three months to try to make one room livable.

[00:10:08] But what I think is so interesting about their story is these people did not come in with a trust fund of any sorts.

[00:10:14] You know Randy is a post office worker, he's a designer and they just got really creative. They have turned it into an event space. There are 501C3.

[00:10:22] They're really looking at interesting creative ways of funding and I think why this house continues to be such a poster child for us is because if they could do this to this house anybody can do this to any house.

[00:10:33] And I think that's what's very cool.

[00:10:37] I mean this house has been featured it's just spectacular it's been featured in movies television shows it out of control and it was $150,000 and they founded on cheap old houses.

[00:10:46] And this is a shameless plug but if you want to come meet us we're going to talk there at this house on September 21st in 22nd.

[00:10:54] Nixon looking at flights right now.

[00:10:56] I'm driving. I'm driving.

[00:10:58] It's a wonderful one to Illinois just goes pretty close to Canada so you know it could work and you know I think it's just it's going to be really cool to see their progress and they now have two kids and they've made this they're going they're hoping to make it a wedding space and they're getting creative with

[00:11:15] this housing situation that we're all in they move from a 700 square foot apartment in Denver and this was actually they were driving to a wedding and they saw that it was listed they saw it on circuit and they go hey should we.

[00:11:30] This is our other real estate website circle houses and they were like should we go visit this house that you know on the way to this wedding and they ended up buying it and it's pretty amazing to hear that full story of you post something online.

[00:11:45] Someone buys it and now they're at their tenure anniversary which actually makes it very old but.

[00:11:52] Yeah, that's that's an amazing story and you know I think I saw the house that you're talking about do you recently posted on on the gram Elizabeth because it yeah so just incredibly beautiful I mean.

[00:12:05] Some of the houses on on the you guys post some like that one needs a lot of work some of them just the character is there and just needs that that refreshing.

[00:12:13] You know I've always been so curious about that process that you guys have on kind of finding and then evaluating these property so like how do you find these houses and then are there certain houses that can't be saved.

[00:12:34] I have yet to come across a house that can't be saved you know these are all of it.

[00:12:40] I don't believe that there's ever a situation where the right person couldn't save it I do believe that there are.

[00:12:45] The wrong owners for certain houses I mean certainly some of these houses are going to require very deep pockets in order to save or creativity or people who have the time to learn how to do with themselves.

[00:12:56] Because you either for a lot of these houses you either need time or you need money I mean you a lot of it yourself and you can learn it and we live in a world where a lot of this is.

[00:13:06] Teachable you know it's you can you can Google anything you can find an expert somewhere who's going to help you along which is great or you need to be able to pay someone to do it for you so but you you're going to need the right owner.

[00:13:16] Yeah, I think if you're and you're looking to invest there's all different types of cheap old houses there's the type that actually have furnaces and working plumbing and electrical you might need some updating in the electrical.

[00:13:29] And then and they're just depending on the location they're a little more rural or just in need of help and someone to kind of come in and just take that house and bring it up.

[00:13:40] But there's some that are definitely many people would call tear downs we wouldn't we think any house can really be saved but as Elizabeth saying I think you just need to know where you're investing and know you know.

[00:13:54] What you can do in terms of fixing and what kind of blood sweat equity equity you want to kind of put in and what you're capable of.

[00:14:03] And these house I think the nature of them being cheap old houses inherently in a way makes them.

[00:14:11] Interesting interesting history lessons because these are generally in places that haven't had.

[00:14:18] Investment every five years every ten years to come redo everything to come flip everything to come update everything and so a lot of times they exist as time capsules.

[00:14:26] In some of the months of parts of this country you know people redo their kitchens every ten years so in these places and you know.

[00:14:33] We're all towns in Oklahoma that just haven't had the luxury of having that kind of investment over the years.

[00:14:39] The kitchen has stayed the same and that makes them very interesting so there is something about the magic of the cheap and the old house in this case.

[00:14:46] That just makes the feed just such a feast for the eyes and so interesting and said and so teachable I see the same elements over and over and over in these houses that I'm posting and I can.

[00:14:57] I know now at house from 1923 looks like it should look like and I think that's really fun for all.

[00:15:02] And I think our generation wants something more than you know the gray floor and just complete drywall everything I think our generation wants something with character in that's very unique because we're kind of coming at this as artists and creatives and we want to have that just almost nostalgia feeling of an old house.

[00:15:21] Or a century home I think in the last century home thing by the way we don't call it a century home here.

[00:15:28] We just call it.

[00:15:31] His story.

[00:15:32] Well there you go that's our contribution to you today you can now take the century home and bring it across America.

[00:15:40] I've heard people know I have a friend in Ohio and she says century home but where we were close enough to Canada I guess.

[00:15:47] I think Canada of America trickled out before before we move on because I want to and I know Dan's fired up to ask about the timelessness and the character piece but I just want to go back to how do you guys find these places because.

[00:16:01] It's only there's like an MLS or I mean maybe you find in the monoloma maybe there's like a network of people that you have built because you guys are in all I mean I think I've seen them and almost every state and kind of almost every asset class from like big old church to old school house to like small little cabin in the woods kind of thing.

[00:16:17] So it's not like there's you know a cookie cutter it's actually exact opposite of cookie cutter so how do you find these things and I know you're expanding to Europe and everything that we'll get there but just in your own you know very very large backyard being the USA how do you guys find these places all over.

[00:16:37] We have a large audience that helps because people send us these things all the time and that is one way that we get and call our audiences assistance in terms of finding these places especially if they just hit on the market.

[00:16:53] Or if there's like some weird Facebook like post that some person put up and you like this has no MLS connection this is for sale by owner it's just a.

[00:17:03] A strange one off house but I think also we have a small team Elizabeth searches every day that's basically her job is to cure the feed and you know we have a small team of people who help us curate so we have someone who focuses on abroad we have someone who focuses.

[00:17:21] around the country we have one team member who loves the ultra cheap old houses so we've generated a newsletter that basically helps people find these niche properties.

[00:17:33] So ultra cheap for us is under I think 25,000.

[00:17:38] So that's you know one of her tasks all week is to find them and it's wild I think there's also for every team member this is not AI driven this is all like us and community driven.

[00:17:53] They Elizabeth and Lisa and Alex like have this memory of these houses and they once they see a house they know like almost when it was posted like it's kind of remarkable how.

[00:18:06] So we have memorable these things become to them.

[00:18:09] That has got to be one of the coolest jobs like I would if you guys are hiring I will literally leave Dan I will leave the podcast and come down.

[00:18:18] And find cheap old houses for you.

[00:18:20] Well all of our staff is remote in our staff have all now purchased cheap old houses.

[00:18:25] That's amazing yeah crazy thing in terms of how far this is kind of come.

[00:18:32] Alex lives in South Carolina, Lisa's in Michigan.

[00:18:36] Cristiana was actually featured on our on the first episode of our show are the pilot episode it was episode three as an aired she purchased a church for $99,000.

[00:18:47] Wow and how lives in it so it's it's really really fun we just recently.

[00:18:51] We have a huge audience obviously on Instagram we have almost 3 million followers and we started to engage people all around the country to go tour these homes because in an ideal world we would fly out and tour every house but we can.

[00:19:03] So we get our community to it whoever lives nearby and this woman went and tour to house in North Carolina and then we're up to us and bought it she said I went there I toured and I loved it so much and now she owns it.

[00:19:13] She has an Instagram beat about it so that was a cute cute little story.

[00:19:17] It's pretty wild yeah and I think that's what when we really knew the impact when we were posting and finding these houses when people started buying them that was the like game changer for us.

[00:19:29] This is our life mission this is yeah.

[00:19:32] Well and obviously like you've created this community of like minded people who are as passionate about the subject as you are and it's and so I think every day you're going to it's going to keep being.

[00:19:43] I'm just exciting and enjoyable for you because you're surrounded by people that you love and who love the same stuff that you do.

[00:19:48] Yeah, I want to jump back to the idea of renovating because you mentioned something about people redoing these kitchens every 10 years and.

[00:19:57] The idea of like wastefulness really is something that to me like you know it whether it's like economic waste or material waste or whatever it is, you know doing these renovations to like keep up with the style and.

[00:20:10] You know this you're talking about these sterile gray floors and stuff like that and then 10 years later it's out of style.

[00:20:17] One of the things that I think is so special about these older houses is that there's an element of timelessness to design I mean you can see.

[00:20:25] Make mansion the McMansion style trying to rip off all of these different elements of these old houses all the time and just doing it in such a poor way.

[00:20:33] When you're going into the into the actual renovation of this, what do you look at to kind of capture that character but also protect it and create that that enduring timelessness when you're renovating a house that you're not going to have to redo the kitchen or the things every 10 years for the next.

[00:20:50] You know for the next two centuries of its life right.

[00:20:54] I would say materials really matter. I think a lot of the kitchens that get torn out now are not necessarily.

[00:21:02] Well, a lot of it has to do with style I think often but a lot of times they're just made with poor materials and the cabinets are sort of you know walking and falling apart.

[00:21:12] And if you can and if you can do it once and do it well and do it with real wood.

[00:21:17] I think you're going to have sort of a longer, um, a longer shelf life on that.

[00:21:22] I would, you know different periods of architecture have a different language so just.

[00:21:28] I'm not suggesting that you need to recreate you know a period kitchen and cook over an open flame.

[00:21:33] But understanding the language of the home so that we've all been in that house where you walk through, you know, very 1860s house

[00:21:40] and then suddenly you walk into the kitchen and you're like yep, it's 2004. Like it's it's very specific to a trend. So I would say you know avoid avoid avoided a sort of overwhelming trends.

[00:21:53] I mean certainly you can incorporate modern elements into a house but you know we have access to the internet do a quick Google search and start to understand the language of your house.

[00:22:02] What the cabinets have been in that style of house, what they have been likely built to the ceiling, what they have been lower down. What it. What was the sort of.

[00:22:11] Language of the architecture, the kinds of hardware, the kinds of materials that we use, the kind of colors and incorporate that a little bit in so it feels a little bit more seamless.

[00:22:21] But really I go back to I used to be so much about just style styles style for style sake and make it look old even if the materials weren't as quality but as I've done this longer and longer

[00:22:30] I really do realize how much materials matter. It's one of the reasons why we love working with old houses because old growth wood that these homes are built with is so superior to the newer wood that you can get a big box stores down it's just a harder, wonderful material and if you

[00:22:49] Yes, it might be costly to restore it but you're putting the money toward the labor so you're investing in your local economy or investing in local craftsmen versus paying for subpar materials and giving your money to a big box store.

[00:23:03] So I think really enjoy working on older homes because the materials are just higher quality in most cases.

[00:23:10] There's interesting saying in the contracting space like don't spend good money after bad and I think when you're talking about like those older materials are good quality materials.

[00:23:19] It's almost ends up being a trade off between okay, we have to cheap out today right at the cheap materials but then I'm going to have to maintain it.

[00:23:26] I'm going to spend more money maintaining it over the lifetime of that renovation or that upgrade or the home like the way that at least the way that I see people building houses here in Canada

[00:23:35] is like I am willing to bet that if you fast forward a thousand years my 1850s farmhouse will still be standing and none of these new houses will still be standing right and so that's the part that fascinates me.

[00:23:47] I will and even if it's a subpar material I would make sure that it's something that can be repaired. I have a great issue with vinyl windows plastics.

[00:23:58] Aluminums you cannot repair them so once they break your only option is to completely replace them and throw them in a landfill and I think that we're going to have a bit of a crisis on our hands.

[00:24:07] Now that we're building with these kinds of materials I mean wood wood windows you can infinitely patch repair fix over for literally centuries.

[00:24:18] No and our first chapter in our book is all about sort of the or even the intros all about the waste of.

[00:24:26] These houses are embodied energy number one where if you if you restore one of these houses you're already starting with many different materials so I like to think about it as saving money in terms of building new for infrastructure costs so you have septic tanks and you have electrical and plumbing and.

[00:24:45] There's and obviously all the studs are there and the floor joists are there and your foundation is stacked stone or something far superior because it's going to actually let moisture come through versus concrete.

[00:25:00] So there's just so many different components of and those things will never be wasted to your point.

[00:25:09] And then in terms of like those those will be standing in a thousand years to your point and you know the new stuff that we bring in the small two by fours and now the codes are changing two by six is okay cool like at least we're building a little bit larger here.

[00:25:25] But you know I think the inherent it the waste is so much less when you buy one of these houses to start off with and you're already starting with so much more.

[00:25:34] And I think there has to be there are a lot there's a lot of conversation in the old house world about here is them, you know it has to be the original materials you have to do this.

[00:25:41] And I think and then we feel that on the other side there's not enough of that conversation going on but I don't feel that there's enough conversation about the rest of us most people who.

[00:25:51] Who honestly try to buy an old house but might not have the money to to buy all the you know top materials and how do I do this correctly so I think there's always tradeoffs and always.

[00:26:01] You sometimes have to go with a sub-parmaterial because it's just a matter of economics and your option otherwise it's not even have the house at all.

[00:26:08] But I think if you're going to invest you might as well invest in something that feels more classic more timeless because if it has a trend to attach to it.

[00:26:19] Unless it's a timeless trend it's going to be outdated and you'll see it in 10 years versus something that.

[00:26:25] You see it in a year now I feel like trends are moving.

[00:26:28] This I always think of the potential trend.

[00:26:31] Yeah, like historical architecture trends lasted like 50 years and now it's like a year.

[00:26:36] It's like it's like fast fashion has kind of crept its way into the housing world.

[00:26:41] It's so funny I'm listening to you guys and I'm thinking of this photo.

[00:26:45] And I don't know we've all seen it where it's like a 2x4 from 100 years ago and then like a 2x4 today and it's like.

[00:26:51] Did math change or what happened here?

[00:26:54] It's never my 4.

[00:26:56] It's always like 2x4.

[00:26:57] Well, yeah.

[00:26:58] One and a half yeah.

[00:27:00] It's crazy now.

[00:27:01] And then it's so funny Elizabeth you talked about like the windows you know I watched again you know I've grew up in century homes and I watched my my dad tirelessly work away.

[00:27:10] And it's not even working away. It's really maintaining right like you've got to maintain these these homes and the home I grew up in here in Ontario.

[00:27:20] 150 plus years old it was like an old church man swear like the minister lived back in the day so it was really you know they built it in triple brick.

[00:27:29] So it was you know just crazy but the windows you know I watched my my dad who's now elderly and retired get up on a ladder.

[00:27:36] And every spring and take the storm windows off and then take them down.

[00:27:42] Gaujow rotten wood and put plastic wood in there and it was just like and you know as a young guy like that with the hell you doing not on my friends.

[00:27:49] Dad's going to do this. This is embarrassing can't we just get normal windows and and you know and now you know as as a.

[00:27:57] As a grown man I'm like get out so that's way cooler than than the boring normal windows that every other person had.

[00:28:04] And let's go back to your point about kind of some of the considerations and and the kind of some of the financials behind this stuff right like what would you say.

[00:28:13] And I and I know it's probably me difficult to give like a blanket statement for this but what would you say some of the key financial considerations that.

[00:28:21] You know people should be aware of when there may be going to look at by an essentially home for the first time right maybe someone from Toronto or Vancouver you know some of our more expensive markets or New York or LA that's like you know what I'm going to somewhere else in the country.

[00:28:34] And you spend in anywhere from 20,000 to 100,000 dollars in getting this house.

[00:28:38] You know then what happens right how much money should people be expecting what goes wrong like what are the big financial considerations.

[00:28:46] Okay well first and foremost we're always concerned with water you have to make sure that the building is sealed so you have to ensure you know if there's water coming into your building anywhere that's going to just snowball into further problems.

[00:28:58] So I would you need to make sure that you're you know you have a decent roof the foundation is solid.

[00:29:06] You know all houses I think one of the things that I just want to impress upon and Ethan could probably add a lot more to the financial.

[00:29:12] Financial.

[00:29:13] And then we'll come in but all houses need maintenance right like old houses need maintenance new houses need maintenance old houses have been around a lot longer so sometimes there's been deferred maintenance.

[00:29:25] But any new house we build today is also going to need maintenance and is and honestly truly is probably got to need more maintenance than an old house would when it was first built just because like I said the materials are generally sub par.

[00:29:40] So I just want to say that all houses you're going to need to maintain old houses have different problems because there's layers that you have to kind of uncover and so again I would say water is usually your primary concern.

[00:29:56] I think in terms of the investment piece I think or what should you be looking at I think people say that these are money pits they are.

[00:30:07] They're going to have to like have that sense right but are my when I look at the money side of it now you know buying a 70 thousand dollar house for example are farmhouse that we're working on.

[00:30:24] It was 70 thousand dollars if we bought that farmhouse let's say a few years ago or even now we're looking at let's say 600 thousand dollars.

[00:30:33] The problem that I see with that 600 thousand dollars is that it's probably going to be mortgage and whereas I can buy the house for 70 thousand dollars cash.

[00:30:43] So then I don't have a mortgage if you look at that 70 thousand dollars and now you deal with the rates that we have in the interest that you're going to add on top.

[00:30:51] You're almost looking at a million dollar home with your done paying for that house after 30 years.

[00:30:58] So it depends on how long you're going to be there it depends on how much you are willing to do kind of on the onset I think you should definitely look at these houses purchasing them if you can outright if you can't get a small mortgage and I think you're going to.

[00:31:17] The cool news is you can spend more time working on it so if you spend 10 years working on it versus paying a 30 year mortgage then you have a long lead time on working on that property and spending the money over time as you need or as you can rather being demanded of that of the bank and kind of being forced that that it it kind of depends on which way you want to go.

[00:31:40] I think for us looking at that investment you know that gives us four or five hundred thousand dollars worth of money to invest into this house that would have been six hundred thousand dollars and then that kind of and then that we know that that asset will be worth that amount at the end of this journey of restoration.

[00:32:02] So I think it takes a little bit of a different mindset to kind of look at it that way versus and if I look at it the long way of having a mortgage then I'm like I'm actually tacking on three hundred more thousand dollars.

[00:32:14] So it's kind of like your damned if you do your damned if you don't if you go with the bank you're going to you're getting you know they're helping you receive this home and if you're working on a house yourself yes you're you're going to have some harder labor and stuff but.

[00:32:30] And more time invested on restoring it but I think financially.

[00:32:35] I would say the old houses still win out if you're willing to put the time in so then it's the way you want it to and then it's the exact way you want it.

[00:32:44] Yeah one of the easy ways of looking at that is like you know you mentioned okay over the course of your mortgage you're going to pay two hundred fifty thousand dollars an interest.

[00:32:51] Would you rather give money to the bank or would you rather give money to this beautiful old house like honestly I think that like it's an easy way for most people to build nobody nobody wakes up and they're like you know.

[00:33:00] What I want to do for the next 10 years I want to pay a bank money you know.

[00:33:05] Right so and I think you're going to collaborate the the cool thing is that money you can support your community you could hire.

[00:33:13] Woodworkers you could hire someone who's going to cut a Mason you could hire an electrician.

[00:33:18] Yeah you're going to be working with your community to build your community up and I think for a lot of these rural communities.

[00:33:22] If you're not able to do everything which is awesome if you can but if you can then you're building up your community while you're doing this and.

[00:33:31] These these types of trades I think are what so much of rural America is is built on I mean these we move to a much more rural area where we have our cheap old house and a lot of the economy up here are people that are craftsman tradesmen that kind of thing and so it feels really good to be able to put our money to them to sustain this economy.

[00:33:50] And that's a lot of where the people houses that we find are.

[00:33:54] It's interesting because I think like the pandemic and decentralization of the workplace really supported a lot of these like cottage communities and I know one of the things we're hoping to make an effort to talk about was sort of like that idea of.

[00:34:06] The the almost tourism or like the B&B side that ends up around the a lot of these properties and I know the story that you mentioned they use that property for.

[00:34:16] You know hospitality purposes entertainment purposes etc.

[00:34:20] What it you know from from that perspective like are you seeing a lot of people purchasing these as primary residences as cottage is as you know better breakfast or Airbnb's and what seems to be kind of like the big market of people who that stands out to who's looking at these things.

[00:34:38] Home by really home buyers the biggest market is home buyers that we see.

[00:34:44] I would have thought you know when my first started this I'm like oh I'm going to put this out there and people are going to buy this as their sixth home and in cash and never be there and that's what I didn't want to have happened truly I want to see these houses I think.

[00:34:56] I think as much as I think these houses really benefit from people living in them and from really people who really really truly care.

[00:35:04] And so but actually that's that's turned out to be exactly who is buying them which is really interesting we have definitely seen people do some Airbnb's and there's people who look at you know we post a lot of really unique properties so there's banks and children.

[00:35:19] I think that's the most of the school house like 20 minutes before getting.

[00:35:23] I didn't even see it yet but like so people are using them for different purposes sometimes or community centers or you know I sometimes I just love the comments on our Instagram page that is like what should we do with this bank oh someone should make that.

[00:35:38] I think it's a bakery called dough.

[00:35:40] I'm just like I want to make a bakery in a bag.

[00:35:45] So I love the contributions that our audience makes and then yeah seeing people actually doing it I think we've seen some wedding venues being made of them.

[00:35:57] And I think yeah the cool news is the black rocks of the world will never buy these houses because there's too much work they don't want to.

[00:36:05] I think they're very well made for sure you can't model out the renovate you can't model out everything that exists once you pull back that laughing plaster so.

[00:36:14] Yeah, you know some of these unique structures though I think.

[00:36:18] I'm not necessarily angry at people who are turning them into sort of not homes for instance school houses churches.

[00:36:25] In this country at least congregations are dwindling.

[00:36:28] These religious structures are in these towns and the church sees their mission to feed the poor not to maintain this million dollar.

[00:36:35] Building happens to be the most gorgeous building in town, but they can't in prime real estate as well.

[00:36:40] It's worth that.

[00:36:41] I'm real estate and at the same time everyone in the community believes that that church belongs to the community it's a very important.

[00:36:47] You know building so we do have to think of ways to it to we call it a day after reuse but how do we how do we adapt this and make it into something and still be able to preserve the character.

[00:36:57] So I think it's cool to see people getting creative with buildings like that.

[00:37:01] Yeah, that's a that's a difficult one in Canada because they're all institutionally zone and almost impossible to finance so like that's that's been like honestly one of the biggest challenges I've done some consulting work with quite a few congregations on.

[00:37:14] Didn't land dispositions and like the hardest part is you know they could give the land away and somebody would sell after pay to get his own bylaw and men and all the entitlements and so it's that's one of the big challenges Canada's just starting to.

[00:37:27] Get a little bit more progressive with our zoning policy and hopefully that will not be as big of a headwind in the future so but I like those are some of my favorite projects to see.

[00:37:38] Well, I think on a zoning perspective, I think one of the worst things for some of these old houses it that we're seeing on a very very mass trend is zoning that allows for multi structure to tear down the house and then go multi structure up.

[00:37:53] And this is happening in a lot of the big cities I would we would rather I think see ADUs or something that you can pop a little property in the back just so it retains that historic character while adding a little bit of if you know in some of these more.

[00:38:08] Desperate communities of needing housing that is affordable for people I think you know we're losing the character of a lot of these cities.

[00:38:16] Because the land property is the land values so high.

[00:38:20] I know my sister lives in Seattle that's really historically been all of these bungalows across bungalows, tutor bungalows and now it's like they're just rapidly going and they're putting up these you know forestry structures and.

[00:38:34] It's just it's just a it's a very quick trend but you know it's also growing city population wise so it's you know how do you balance that.

[00:38:44] Yeah, it's always the tough one I'm okay I got I want to be mindful of the time here because I know that we could probably go for hours which which really just means that we have to do this again but.

[00:38:54] I one final question you guys have so much going on you you know it's funny everyone probably looks at you guys and things overnight success but you know this goes all the way back to when Ethan invented we work before we work was a thing and.

[00:39:07] It's house hacking office spaces and desks and you know Dana and I get the same thing like how did you guys blow up like it's like well we've been we've been literally trying to do stuff for 10 years right so.

[00:39:17] You built this business you built as you said Ethan these these little empires and I think it's just being so well received people are so excited about it.

[00:39:25] What's next give give me a little insight into the next I don't know five months two years like what what's the next big thing that you guys are excited about.

[00:39:34] Well we're really getting over a hump of a ton of activity we just finished writing our book last year it came out I just bought a copy of this by the way.

[00:39:47] Not joking we're going to give some away to promote the episode if that's okay.

[00:39:50] My gosh of course thank you thank.

[00:39:53] Then the we've just finished eight houses restoring eight houses for our latest TV show who's afraid of a cheap old house on HTTP and streaming on max so we're heading into a season of.

[00:40:09] Relaxing hanging out with our kids at the minute good.

[00:40:12] Getting back to our original sort of business getting back to Instagram getting back to figuring out.

[00:40:18] We've spent like two years really working on these other projects that have helped everything alone but I think we're getting back to working on our farmhouse fixing that up.

[00:40:30] We have another property that we want to do that we're working on for ourselves right now and I think.

[00:40:36] You know I mean the core of our business are our subscription newsletters where people can subscribe to see cheap old farmhouses cheap.

[00:40:43] Shouses ultra cheap old houses or cheap old houses abroad and that's we're really kind of I think refocusing a little bit on you know really.

[00:40:53] Helping people find houses that's kind of our that's kind of our favorite thing to do and also just restoring our own.

[00:40:59] Now that we've gone through the production process of restoring all of these houses we learned so much from that and we're just kind of getting back to the basics I think on it.

[00:41:08] We're doing some events coming up to go to some of these old houses and to meet people and it's literally the most heartwarming thing for us.

[00:41:16] And reaffirming thing for our original core business of just posting these things online and we meet people all around the country and they come up to us and they're like you guys are like the real deal.

[00:41:28] That we are.

[00:41:30] You have to help me create this like life for myself like just had so many amazing experiences meeting people who tell us what impact we've had on their lives buying a cheap old house and restoring it and telling us maybe some of the struggles of it and where they are in their current process.

[00:41:52] So it's that's like the best so we're going to go to fair and haul which is in Michigan.

[00:41:59] We're doing a dinner there we're going to Duncan manner in these are both properties in the book Illinois.

[00:42:05] Amazing.

[00:42:07] And then what's the there's oh and we're going to go out to Massachusetts for another get together with some very road show I love it well will will either come to you guys or you guys will come to us will figure something out because we we got to do something together and.

[00:42:20] You know, Dana and our big believers in kind of practicing what you preach right like we we talk a lot about investing and that's because we still do it actively and to see that you guys are like yeah we're.

[00:42:33] You know we just finished a TV show and just finished a book and we're going to chill and by chilly we mean we're going to work on our own.

[00:42:39] So I love to say it doesn't get more real than that Ethan Elizabeth as very very sincere thank you from Dana myself for for grace and that's with your presence today.

[00:42:48] And I'm sure our audience was is going to eat this up and probably want more can you leave us with something where can people find out more about you but people want to get involved or reach out or buy a cheap old house or any of that kind of stuff.

[00:43:01] What's the best way to do that?

[00:43:02] Yep, follow us on Instagram or Facebook at cheap old houses sign up for our free newsletter.

[00:43:08] You can do that at cheap old houses.com and that'll just keep you up to date on all the things we're doing and sort of other sort of more specific newsletters that you can receive if you have a specific type of.

[00:43:17] People house you're looking for pickup a book to see some inspiration for your own cheap old house restoration and yeah if you're looking to watch something and be entertained and watch old house get transformed.

[00:43:30] Who's afraid of a cheap old house is now streaming on each on max and discovery plus and discovery plus yes.

[00:43:37] So thank since your to your to pitch the paid newsletter I would highly recommend doing that as well because all of those lists are excellent.

[00:43:47] I think what my I think my subscription lapsed on the one that I was on but it was like I remember getting those emails and I was the one I looked forward to so.

[00:43:55] Thank you for that yeah.

[00:43:57] Well it's it's amazing to hear get some comments about the newsletters because like they're the the coolest thing that we do and like can give to people and then we've just feel like it's such a great little product.

[00:44:09] And it's just funny who subscribes like we see you know we see people in the back and there's like celebrities who subscribe to.

[00:44:16] Yeah, there's a one like you don't need this.

[00:44:19] You know you know.

[00:44:20] You know.

[00:44:23] Like what is this really.

[00:44:26] But.

[00:44:26] What do you do to come on.

[00:44:29] I think it's just it gets your creative uses flowing you know we always say that Instagram is a bunch of after photos and we're all the before's and there's something really.

[00:44:37] Yeah, it really is like I think people are just natural like naturally want to create and then I think like pop culture you always get like those.

[00:44:46] You know Christmas rom coms where somebody trades a house with somebody who has like this old house and the kind old bar mess in the country.

[00:44:52] You know what I mean like but and so there's like that that's like there's a fantasy about it as well.

[00:44:56] So totally really captured something special just out here.

[00:44:59] Clayton rom coms I love it.

[00:45:01] Yeah.

[00:45:02] Thanks so much guys.

[00:45:04] We'll put all those links in the show notes for everyone listening and stay tuned for more to come with Ethan and Elizabeth from Sheeple houses.

[00:45:12] Thanks again guys.

[00:45:13] Thank you guys.

[00:45:14] Thank you.

[00:45:14] Take care you guys.

[00:45:16] The Canadian real estate investor podcast is for entertainment purposes only and it is not.

[00:45:22] Financial advice Nick Hill is a mortgage agent with premier mortgage center and a partner in the G and H mortgage group.

[00:45:31] Licent number 10317 agent license M 21004037.

[00:45:39] Dino photos are real estate broker license to with rare real estate.

[00:45:43] A member of the Canadian real estate association, the Toronto real estate board and the Ontario real estate association.