Why Every Investor Needs an Investment Policy

[00:00:01] [SPEAKER_01] This is The Canadian Investor, where you take control of your own portfolio and gain the confidence you need to succeed in the markets. Hosted by Braden Dennis and Simon Belanger The Canadian Investor Podcast. Welcome into the show. My name is Braden Dennis, as always joined by the fervent Simon Belanger.

[00:00:24] [SPEAKER_01] Buddy, we got a banger here. I have a story for you later where I'm the biggest schmuck of all time. It is actually tough to even remember this story, but there's a reason that it came up again and I'm going to tell you about that.

[00:00:41] [SPEAKER_01] But first off on the docket here, you have why investors should have investment policy, a plan, what it should contain. I love this topic and I think that it's very key, especially when volatility kicks in. Like, what are we doing here? Why are we here?

[00:00:58] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. No, I think that's great. And I can't remember, I was listening to someone recently and they were talking about having the importance of having an investment policy, even as an individual retail investor.

[00:01:11] [SPEAKER_00] It's really important. It's pretty common, obviously, or it's a prerequisite when you're dealing with institutional investors like pension funds. So they will always have an investment policy. But I think it's really useful as an individual investor, especially when we see a lot of volatility. Just going back to that. I'm guilty of not having a concrete one. And after hearing that and doing this segment, I will actually be working on one. I have some. Like a written down one?

[00:01:39] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, written down one. So I'm guilty of not having that, even though I do have some rules in place. But I think it's really important. As weird as it may sound to some people, I think it's really important to write it down. Just like your investment thesis when you buy a company. If not, you know, memory fades over time. A lot of stuff happens. You only have so much space in your brain and you sometimes will just misremember stuff. It's just normal.

[00:02:05] [SPEAKER_00] So that's why I came up with this segment. So the first part would be establishing your investment objectives. So just some key questions here to ask and just to guide people. And obviously, there might be some additional things. And you have to really customize it to make sure it applies to you. But what's your primary goal? Are you looking to invest for retirement? Are you looking to buy a home with a first home savings account, for example? Are you saving for your child's education or something completely different? Do you have a secondary goal?

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_00] Maybe your primary goal is to invest for your retirement, but you also have a secondary goal of buying a new house in 10 years. So that's important because most people invest for retirement, but it's very possible that you, well, I think you're probably in that situation, right? You're investing, I think, for one retirement long term. But I know you want to buy a place eventually. I don't know what the time frame is.

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_00] But speaking with you, I know you have a first home savings account, for example.

[00:03:05] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. No, it's a good point. And I like the idea of like, after you finish this, we'll summarize what you have written here. But I don't have this written down either. I have like a frame, I have my framework. I have my investing. It's actually a diagram that I've built and I have it like pasted right on my computer home desktop there. And I refer to it all the time. And I created it years ago and it continued to adapt.

[00:03:33] [SPEAKER_01] But you're right, I don't have like objectives. I also don't have my sell rules solidified, even though they're in my head to some extent. I think this is actually a really good thing for me to do as well over the next couple weeks to put this together. And it's going to change. I think that's like this should be a fluid Google Doc. Yeah. You just kind of have handy.

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_00] And, you know, I think it should change because obviously if you invest for retirement and you created this 20 years ago and now you're like 5, 10 years away from retirement, clearly there's going to be components of it that will change. But having written down and I think as you make modification, you actually think about making those modifications and the logic behind that and why you're doing it. Now, to get back here to establishing your investment objective, what kind of annual returns are you targeting?

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_00] What is the minimum rate of return that you'll need to achieve your objectives? And how much money do you need? Do you think you'll need to reach your goal? And obviously, I think this part especially, you'll need to update this on an annual basis. That would be my recommendation is just doing a review, especially of certain parts on an annual basis, because you may think going back to retirement that based on your expenses now and your lifestyle and your projections, you'll need $2 million.

[00:05:00] [SPEAKER_00] And then a few years down the line, you say, you know what? It's no longer $2 million. It'll be $2.5 million, $3 million, or maybe it's less because some things change in your life. So I think it's important to at least do a periodic review of this once a year. The second part here, it's what's your time horizon? So of course, if it's going to be different, whether you need the money in a few years, in 10 years, or at a moment's notice, if you have multiple goals, you'll need to figure that out for each goal.

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_00] This one's so key.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_01] Like, of course, if you go to a financial planner, it's like the first question they ask you, and that's why it's at the top of your list here. Yeah. So many of my friends, so for context, I'm about to turn 30 this summer.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_00] Big 3-0.

[00:05:47] [SPEAKER_01] The big 3-0. And so many of my friends, obviously, are kind of in that, like, going for their first home goal mode, just based on where the market is, where I live. It's just, it's a big goal. And honestly, frankly, so unachievable for a good chunk of the population at this cohort. But that's... I would call it almost a Canadian dream for a lot of people. Exactly.

[00:06:15] [SPEAKER_01] It's how their parents got rich. They bought something in Oakville, Ontario for 100 grand, and next thing, you know, they sold it to 3 million and bought and retired in Muskoka. Like, that's what my parents did. And so it's the Canadian dream that they saw their parents' generation do. It's what they, the story. And I think that, you know, most people are gunning for that. And I was speaking with a buddy last week, and he calls me.

[00:06:45] [SPEAKER_01] He's like, dude, I'm kind of freaking out. Like, markets down 15% or whatever. Like, these Trump tariffs. Like, should I be concerned? And I was like, well, what do you, like, what's this money for? Like, aren't you just kind of investing your, like, TFSA or whatever for the next several decades kind of thing? And he's like, oh, no, I'm going to, like, use it to buy a house soon. And I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_01] Like, nothing on this show is financial advice and nothing I'm giving you over the phone here, pal, is financial advice. But, like, I'm not saying go panic sell all your stocks here. But you need to put all your contributions not back into risk on equity markets. Now, don't go panic sell all your stuff.

[00:07:36] [SPEAKER_01] But you need to build a much different strategy for that money that you plan to use in the next two years.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:07:45] [SPEAKER_01] That is not, the equity markets is not a place for that allocated funds. It's just, it's, it's just not.

[00:07:54] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I think we've had so many good years. And I mean, with the aside of the 2022 blip almost, right, we've had pretty much a bull market since, what, 2009, 2010. And I think a lot of people just get complacent and just assume that stocks will continue to go higher without any blips on the radar. And they will likely go higher over the long term. They're not wrong on that.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_00] But if you need the money on a shorter term basis, like you said, a few years out, even within five years, you should definitely start thinking about reducing your risk, even if it's five years out. And I'll take my example for, like, a personal example. We bought a house. It's an older home. Very nice neighborhood. But when we bought it, we uncovered some foundation issues. And we were able to get the price down because they're repairable. But it's going to cost about $40,000.

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_00] And we put that money aside. We were able to get it lower. We set that money aside. That money is not invested in the stock market. I can tell you that right now. Because we will be doing these repairs this summer. It's all in Canadian treasury bills. That's it. It's very liquid. So when we need the cash later this year, this summer, I'll be able to sell it. And I was still getting about 3% on my money. So that's...

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Let's try to actually be pretty useful here. So with that money, you put it in your... You do that through the brokerage?

[00:09:21] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Through the brokerage. I mean, I could have put it in a savings account as well. But I was just... I could get a little bit more on the brokerage in terms of... Okay. Got it.

[00:09:31] [SPEAKER_01] Here's what I do. So I have a portion of the money that I need to just be liquid. Like I got to pay taxes at the end of the year and stuff like that. I put it in a mix of three areas. Okay. In my brokerage, in a money market cash ETF. So that pays me... I don't know what that's paying right now. I mean, call four and a half, 5% roughly?

[00:09:54] [SPEAKER_00] Probably a bit less, but around there. Yeah.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_01] Around there. Yeah. And then I will do a smaller, but some portion of it in a HISA, like high interest savings account inside of EQ Bank. And then the rest of it is largely in laddered GICs depending on when I'll need it inside of EQ Bank.

[00:10:13] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_01] So those are the two platforms I use. And it sounds like an ad. It's not. This is actually what I've been doing for a long time. And then so you do kind of a similar, but you're also using T-bills inside your brokerage.

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Our emergency fund is with EQ Bank. So that one is just readily available. So it's much easier because the brokerage is nice, but you're always going to get a few days delay with the brokerage between the time you sell, the settlement time, the time it's transferred to your account. So if you need literally the money within like 24 hours, you probably won't be able to get it. You usually should give yourself three to five business days until you get it.

[00:10:48] [SPEAKER_00] Not that for most expenses, it'll be fine, but just so people are aware, but just goes to show that this is the money that we need shorter term. And we're not putting it in stock market. I'm not putting it in Bitcoin. I'm not putting any stuff like that. It's just in very highly liquid assets that there's no or very little risk to the capital. And that's the way to do it, in my opinion. If not, you can get some nasty surprises.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_01] And that buys you the ability to truly think long term with your investment portfolio.

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_00] I thought you were going to say it buys me sleep. I was going to agree.

[00:11:31] [SPEAKER_01] Well, those are the same thing. Yeah, yeah. Those are the same thing. So yeah, any way you slice it. I do think it's extremely important to have the ability to buy yourself that peace of mind and ability to think long term with your actual investment portfolio, with like the bulk of your wealth that you're going to try to compound.

[00:11:55] [SPEAKER_01] Because all this stuff I'm keeping liquid, it's still a small part of my overall holdings. It's a really small piece, but it's enough that I don't have to think short term with the things I'm trying to compound long term. Say I'm off by 5% in terms of optimized. Like I'm not perfectly optimized. Like I'm holding a little bit too much cash. I will assign the value of that in being able to truly think long term with my portfolio.

[00:12:24] [SPEAKER_01] Like there's an actual opportunity cost in there that's like impossible to bake in and quantify, but I know that it exists. And so I like operating that way. And it sounds like you as well.

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_00] Oh yeah, absolutely. And the biggest mistakes that you can make as an investor is not the biggest, but a mistake that is easily avoidable is avoiding being forced to sell. And that's another reason why I don't do leverage because leverage can force you to sell where you don't have a choice and you have to liquidate or add some more cash. And if you don't have it, you're kind of stuck and you have to do a forced sell.

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_00] And same thing, right? If you don't have that buffer with cash, you may be in a situation, you increase the chances that you'll be forced to sell. Look, we could both have a situation where even despite the precautions we're taking, we're forced to sell because there's really a non-foreseen event that's super low probability that we could never have seen that just eats all of it and then some, but we're definitely lowering that risk way, way down. And you never want to be in a spot where you're forced to sell.

[00:13:36] [SPEAKER_01] No, a distressed seller is a position I wouldn't wish upon even my worst nightmare, my worst enemy. I mean, it is, it's not, there's a reason that the word distressed has so much, you know, kind of emotion around it. It's not a good position to be in.

[00:13:52] [SPEAKER_00] No, exactly. And now the next thing you need to ask yourself is for each goal, what's your risk tolerance? What kind of drawdowns are you able to sustain without panicking? What happens if you end up short of your goal by 10, 20, 30%? What's the maximum shortfall you can live with? That's really important because maybe you have an amount in mind for retirement, but you start mapping out some scenarios and you say, you know what? I'm good with the range here.

[00:14:21] [SPEAKER_00] So even if I don't hit the top of my range in term of income, that's okay. I can still make it work. So for that reason, I can actually take a bit more risk than someone who will actually need that minimum to achieve where they may have to be a bit more careful with taking risk. The next one here is asset allocation. So what assets do you want to own? What percentage would you like allocated to each asset? You can do a set percentage here or a range.

[00:14:50] [SPEAKER_00] It really depends. It's kind of personal preference. Rebalancing rule. Do you have a rebalancing rule? If so, is it based on the asset class or for a specific holding? For example, you will not have more than 5% in one individual company. For example, that could be your rule. What's the rebalancing requirements? So say you rebalance based on asset classes and have a target of 70% equities and you have

[00:15:18] [SPEAKER_00] a rebalance rule of 5% divergent. So in other words, if it falls below 65% of equities, your portfolio or above 75%, you would have to rebalance to get back to your 70%. So there are some rules that you can put. I'm not saying one is better than the other. That's really personal. If you don't rebalance and you let your winners run, which I know you like to do, Brayden, that's fine. But you are taking on some more risk because you'll eventually probably get some positions

[00:15:47] [SPEAKER_00] that get really outside. So you just have to be aware. And having that in your investment policy is really important. And another way you can rebalance is actually you don't touch your existing investment. And then you just do the rebalancing with new contributions. So let's say you're under your equities target. You're at 65%, like I mentioned. And then you say, you know what? Until I get back to 70%, everything I'm contributing, it goes all in equities.

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_00] And then once it starts being more balanced, then I continue contributing with the breakdown that I had in mind, whether it's bonds, gold, Bitcoin, whatever you had in mind, you can do it that way as well. Well, it's kind of what it's your personal preference. I mean, at the end of the day, it's your investment policy, right? I see you nodding. Two thoughts here.

[00:16:35] [SPEAKER_01] I love that you said the second point around like, you can rebalance via new contributions. This is my preferred way to do it. So I was talking about with my buddy who's like, about to add more money to his equities portfolio that he wants to pull out in two years. Like, you don't need to go sell your stuff and rebalance. But like new contributions coming through the door. If you have the luxury of having new contributions of stuff coming in the door, then yeah, just allocate it differently.

[00:17:04] [SPEAKER_01] And I think that that's a good way to make the math work out. My second point is having, I actually have a intentional policy around not doing this. As you, as you enter that, like my policy is inherently that I don't have a policy. And I think that that's, and that's legit too, because I do not like to sell winners. I'd like to let them run.

[00:17:33] [SPEAKER_01] Yes, you end up in a situation like me where you got 50% of my portfolio still in one stock in Constellation Software. That happens. That's been the, you know, that rule breaks traditional portfolio theory and diversification. And guess what? It's been the right move. And I continue to think it will be. And so am I throwing new capital at that position? No, but I'm purposely, intentionally not trimming it and not rebalancing it.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_01] That is my policy that I don't have that policy.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And you just write it down, right? You say like, I don't rebalance. I will just, when a position gets too large, I just start diverting my contribution to something else. So you write that down. Now, in terms of contribution policy, this is the second to last one here, but I think it's should be at the top. Like don't take it in terms of order of importance because the contribution policy, I think it's very, very important. So do you contribute towards your investment systematically?

[00:18:32] [SPEAKER_00] If so, what amount and what frequency, or do you prefer to look at it on a percentage basis of your income? Personally, I would look at it on a percentage basis of my income, but that's just my personal preference. What happens to your contribution if your income increases? Are you, do you want to contribute more, keep it the same? Or I've seen a lot of people who are, you have done very well with their investment.

[00:18:58] [SPEAKER_00] What they'll do is any increase in income, they pretty much put all of that towards their investment. As long as they can still obviously maintain their lifestyle with cost of living and things like that. But you can make something that makes sense for you. What do you do if your income decreases? Do you decrease your contribution or do you cut elsewhere in your budget to continue making them? Because we're going to have some economic uncertainty.

[00:19:25] [SPEAKER_00] I think that's fair to say in the next year or two. Some people may see their income, their earnings impacted. And I think it's good to just have a plan in mind. If you do get that, you don't want your income to decrease. I get it. But sometimes, you know, it is what it is, right? The big country next door slaps tariffs on your, the auto sector and you're laid off. Like there are just things that are outside of your control.

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_00] But knowing what you would do in advance, I think is important. Last one here. The actually last two. I think they're really good. Do you have any prohibited investment or strategies? What investment or strategies you actually will not do? Maybe Bitcoin's not your team and you just don't want to invest in Bitcoin. Write it down. That's fine. Or maybe you want to invest in Bitcoin, but you won't touch any of the other coins. Then you write that down. Do you want to use leverage or not use leverage?

[00:20:20] [SPEAKER_00] If you don't want to use leverage, write that down here in terms of prohibited investment. Are there certain companies or certain types of companies that you will not touch? Put that in there. Maybe you don't invest in government bonds that are more than two to three years in duration. Put that there. Maybe you don't want to touch options whatsoever. Put that there. And I think that's important. And of course, you can change that. Maybe you say, I will never touch options.

[00:20:48] [SPEAKER_00] And then you hear the second segment that I will have later. And you say, okay, you know what? I'll modify this option segment. But it's just some examples. And I think that's good to have there. It doesn't mean you can't change it. But I think it's a good thing to have a prohibited investment space too.

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_01] Having some sort of framework in place for when things get sticky is pretty important. I've been pretty rigid with some rules around what I do and don't invest in. And those mostly have to do with my area of competence and them being in the strike zone of what I'm good at.

[00:21:28] [SPEAKER_01] And so I think that you're able to change those and you're willing to review certain ideas and reserve the right to change your mind. I think that that's so important. And I think that's important politically in your investing style, in your relationships and friendships.

[00:21:54] [SPEAKER_01] Like being able to change your mind when like you have new facts or new logic or new understanding or you've just gotten smarter is pretty key. That being said, you wrote this down before. So don't quickly flip things around, you know, you're like, I don't day trade. You read some, you watch some YouTube article about how some guy's day trading his way to wealth, some scammy thing.

[00:22:21] [SPEAKER_01] Review that rule why you said don't do the day trade. Like a lot of stuff still is too good to be true. So, you know, don't flip flop on it too much, but also reserve the right to change your mind. I think this is good, man.

[00:22:35] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I guess the last couple of things here, a policy review frequency. So I said personally, I think I would recommend that people would do it at least once a year. Review it anytime. There's a big life event that happens, whether it's loss of income, marriage, kiss, kids. Maybe you inherited a large sum of money. That's going to change things. So make sure you review that and then make sure you have an exit strategy as well.

[00:23:01] [SPEAKER_00] So write down when you need to start shifting your strategy from accumulation to focusing a bit more on the accumulation. I think those are the big parts. Some people may add some more components to this, but I thought that it's a good starting point. And as I was doing it, I'm like, this is definitely something I will be doing in the next few weeks.

[00:23:20] [SPEAKER_00] And maybe I'll share it on the podcast a bit later on, and maybe I'll even post it on JoinTCI for the subscribers so they can see exactly in writing what it is and the changes that I make to it. Because I'm sure I will be making changes to it over time.

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_01] All right, shifting gears onto kind of more personal finance talk, but I think you'll like this. So eating lunch yesterday, I think I'm all cool because I'm not on TikTok. In this, I'm like scrolling YouTube shorts. I'm still in. It's the same stuff. They've hacked my brain. But there was a clip. It was a quick clip of Charlie Munger's last recorded interview. You can see what kind of algorithm I'm on here.

[00:24:08] [SPEAKER_01] Charlie Munger's last recorded interview before his passing last year. Becky Quick of CNBC. Many of you will know Becky Quick. She does. She kind of moderates the annual meeting. She's a mainstay, longtime, you know, person at CNBC. And I think she quarterbacks basically all the Buffett stuff at this point that he does in terms of media appearances. So she asked him the question, is there anything left on your bucket list?

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_01] Age 99, Charlie responded, quote, I am so old and weak compared to what I was even at 96 that I no longer want to catch a 200 pound tuna. It's just too much goddamn work to get it in. It takes too much physical strength. So I would have paid any amount to catch a 200 pound tuna when I was younger. I never caught one. And now if given the opportunity, I would just decline going.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_01] I won't even go out after them. There are things you give up with time. Again, he said, quote, I would have paid any amount to catch a 200 pound tuna when I was younger. Better be some good tuna.

[00:25:22] Yeah.

[00:25:23] [SPEAKER_01] Now, Simone, I don't know if Charlie is a fisherman. I actually don't know. I Googled it after. I've never seen him, any photos of him fishing. And this to me just screams a Charlieism of just, it's an analogy. It's a story about the bigger picture of something. And it's so on brand for him. Like the way that he said this, the way he explained it. And he's just so big brain.

[00:25:52] [SPEAKER_01] And it totally messed with me as I'm eating my lunch yesterday. Because I realized how many times I've cheaped out or just like not done some experience in my early 20s for an amount of money that is just completely irrelevant. Honestly. And yeah, I have more money now than I did then. But I'm not talking about like obscene amounts of money that you need a lot of capital for.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_01] I'll tell you a story where I'm just like the biggest schmuck of all time. Okay. So it's June 2018. I'm in Barcelona, Spain on a backpacking trip. Well, I'm basically spending all the money I made on my co-ops and my summer engineering jobs, my internship jobs. I saved like a maniac to do this trip.

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_01] Simon, if you talk to me, some of my friends, like I was like, I'm living on $4 a day type of thing. Like I was going crazy because I knew that I wanted to save the money for this trip. And I knew I needed like 20, 30 grand, right?

[00:26:56] [SPEAKER_00] I did the same, man, when I went to Taiwan around that same age.

[00:26:59] [SPEAKER_01] You do what you got to do. And so that's not the part that I regret. In fact, that was an amazing idea. I was very diligent. I was smart. I saved my money so I could do this amazing trip. Okay. We get there, a buddy and I, we're 22. We meet these German girls at the hotel. Things are going good. It's a Friday night. And they're like, tonight, Barcelona FC versus Real Madrid.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_01] This is prime Cristiano Ronaldo versus Lionel Messi, Barcelona, Madrid. You guys have to come. I'm not a big soccer fan, but like, you know, Ronaldo Messi, like this is the goats, right? In La Liga. So it was 80 euros for tickets. No, they were not good tickets. They were shit tickets, but they were 80 euros. And we didn't go like complete bozos, probably because of my idea.

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01] I mean, probably because it was my idea to not go. Because like, oh, I couldn't figure out how to spend money. And I had just spent all of this time saving like a freak so that I could do this, basically. Do this trip. And it was 80 euros and we didn't go like complete bozos. And I already had an engineering job out of school for when I got back. So like, I was gonna make money.

[00:28:26] [SPEAKER_01] I was saving like a freak just to get to make this happen. I couldn't live in the present. And looking back, this is probably the dumbest move possible. We had a great trip. I'm not saying we didn't. But this Friday night in Barcelona, don't make this mistake that I did. Whether you're listening now, I know there's a lot of young people who listen to the show, early 20s. Don't make my bozo schmuck mistake.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_01] This is, you know, I'd pay 10 to 20 times in a second today to rewrite that. And in the last year or two, I finally learned how to spend money on things that I can afford without guilt. And it's really hard to break out of this, Simone. It's really hard to break out of it.

[00:29:13] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. I think at the end of the day, we've talked about that before. It's just, you know, making sure you have a balance between, you know, being smart about your money, but also enjoying yourself. I've said this before. Like, you know, I'm 39. I'm gonna be 40 later this year. You're gonna be 30. Yeah. I'm sure we have decades to live, but you never know, right? You could go outside and there's a meteor that just falls down exactly where you are.

[00:29:43] [SPEAKER_00] Like, it's a super...

[00:29:45] [SPEAKER_01] It's like the Brian Johnson who wants to live forever. He, like, even says, he's like, I'm gonna ironically get hit by a bus. I already, I've already accepted that.

[00:29:52] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, exactly. But it just goes to show, like, you have to make sure you do a good balance between enjoying things in the moment, but also saving for the future. And I think that's probably the best example where it's not a situation that you could realistically in your life will be able to do that many times. Even if you remove, like, obviously, I know they're not in their prime anymore, but take whichever prime athletes and do it now.

[00:30:20] [SPEAKER_00] Now, it's just not something that you have the chance to do very often. So, you know, if the cost makes sense, obviously, you're not bankrupting yourself to do it, then...

[00:30:29] [SPEAKER_01] 80 euros.

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, exactly. It was well within the budget. Yeah. But that's like $300 or 300 euros now with inflation, right? Yeah, probably. Probably.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_01] So, this is an investing show. And I strongly believe, as you said, you gotta act financially responsible. You gotta have a balance. You gotta invest in your future. Don't spend more money than you make. Have good judgment. And net, net, you'll live a much less stressful life if you have your stuff together financially. A hundred percent. That being said, I hope just one person learns from my $80 mistake here.

[00:31:06] [SPEAKER_01] Because when I heard that Charlie Munger quote as he sat there at 99 reflecting back, I think that was his... It was kind of just... It was his reflection on like, even at 99, I've declined a lot since if you were to interview me at 96. Like, I was still looking forward to the future of work every day. I've slowed down so much.

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_01] And in hindsight, I would have paid, quote, paid any amount to catch a 200-pound tuna. And as far as I know, Charlie's not talking about literally catching a 200-pound tuna. But more so the fact that he would give anything to make sure that he didn't miss out on the opportunities that he had when he was younger because he was so focused on making money.

[00:31:57] [SPEAKER_01] So I thought it was a really, really good interview. You can look it up. He's at the age of 99. He's sitting outside there with Becky Quick in his wheelchair and just dropping dimes of wisdom. The fact that he was that sharp up until literally his last few days is just their remarkable life that he lived.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. Hard to disagree with that. Did you want to do the next one or want me to do my next segment and we'll finish with you?

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_01] Oh, yeah. I have a quick one. We'll do that. Yeah. Okay. I was talking with my team and we're like, should we put together an IPO calendar for the website? Like maybe get some more eyeballs on it. It could be like a good little marketing thing. I don't know if people are going to pay for it, but it could be a little marketing thing. And then I'm like looking at the IPO calendars that are out there. And I was like, this is kind of true. Like who's going public that we're excited about?

[00:32:54] [SPEAKER_01] Just this past week, there's some of the big online brokers going public. Webull, eToro filed an S1 as well. So those are some bigger billion dollar tech-ish IPO, fintech IPO. So those are cool. But other than that, I mean, there hasn't really been that much. Like we're getting all excited about Birkenstock going public last year. Like that really? Like is that where we're at?

[00:33:19] [SPEAKER_01] And so I just wanted to dig up some data on why you're not seeing as much exciting IPOs. And there are a variety of reasons. But in my opinion, no other bigger reason than how much capital is in late stage venture or late stage growth equity, whatever you want to categorize it. So the number of companies going public declined significantly.

[00:33:48] [SPEAKER_01] In 2023, U.S. venture capital firms invested over $67 billion in late stage deals. Up $20 billion from a decade ago. $67 billion in U.S. late stage venture, according to data from PitchBook. Look, traditionally, you would have gone public if you were looking for a, you know, $10, $20 billion valuation when it comes to a tech company.

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01] Of course, those are big, big IPOs. Let's look at the Stripe example. They raised a $6.5 billion Series I. Series I, I didn't even know the alphabet went to that. Usually these companies have gone public by then, especially when you're raising $6.5 billion. I think they raised it somewhere like $90 billion on the private market there.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_01] So according to Renaissance Capital IPO Index, IPO activity in the U.S. fell nearly 80% in 2021 to 2023. Of course, there's other factors here at play into why there is less IPOs. But you have companies like Databricks, Canva, other unicorns, like Stripe. It's not normal to see those types of valuations, those types of traction, those types of businesses

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_01] raising at $100 plus billion tech companies in late stage venture. So because there's so much capital available for them, they're just going that route. They're just like, screw an IPO. We're going to stay private. We're going to raise all this money. The capital's there. I'm still able to shore up our balance sheet, get some liquidity for early employees, take some secondary. I'm able to check off all the boxes that I would have been able if I'm able to go public by staying private with late stage venture.

[00:35:41] [SPEAKER_01] So yeah, that's the segment.

[00:35:43] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. Obviously there has been, you know, from 21 to 23, you saw interest rates go way up. There was tons of liquidity in 2021. The markets, evaluations were crazy. So obviously capital dried up a little bit, but ever since, and I'm not in the VC space, you know that stuff better than I do. But I'm sure some VCs were happy to be more selective when they could get four and a half, 5% on their cash and more selective with deals.

[00:36:12] [SPEAKER_00] I think that's probably played a part into having maybe a little bit of a slowdown, but sounds like VC is, it's still alive and running, even though we're not seeing that many IPOs.

[00:36:25] [SPEAKER_01] As long as you have the most two important letters in the alphabet, AI. AI.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_00] That's all you need. Yeah. It's hard to disagree, but we'll move on to my last segment here. We'll talk about options and not options trading. So this kind of strategy is actually pretty, there's not that, well, there is some risk, but it's not a high risk strategy. I mean, it's pretty much the same kind of risk that you would get with owning a stock. Not quite, but I'll go over it. So it's called a cash secured put. So what is a put option?

[00:37:03] [SPEAKER_00] Because I know we have some new listeners. So I'll just give a little bit of background what a put option is. So a put option gives the buyer the option, the buyer of the option to the right to sell the stock of a company at a predetermined price, which is called the strike price. So for example, you own stock ABC that is currently trading at $100 and you buy a put at a strike price of $90.

[00:37:27] [SPEAKER_00] If the stock drops below $90, you could exercise that put option to sell the stock at $90, even if it's trading for less, say at $85 or $80. It basically gives you some downside protection when you're buying a put option. In exchange for that, right? Of course, if you buy a put option, you pay a premium that goes to the seller of the put option. So what if you're the seller? And that's what I'm actually going to talk about here.

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_00] So selling a put option. So you can sell a put option, which would require you to buy the stock if the buyer of that put option exercises it. So for example, you sell a put option for stock ABC at a strike price of $90. The stock is currently trading at $100. In exchange, the buyer of the option pays you a premium. If the stock stays above $90, the put option won't get exercised because it makes no sense.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_00] The buyer of the option can actually just sell his stock at a higher price than $90 and you could just collect the premium. If the stock goes below $90, then the put will be exercised and you'll have to buy the stock of ABC for $90, even though it may be trading well below that. Now that's the risk of using a cash secured put is that you're forced to buy the stock at a price that is above what it's currently trading.

[00:38:54] [SPEAKER_00] But if you do it as a cash secured put means that you sell the put option and you have enough cash to buy the stock if the put option gets exercised. It's not complicated because you know what the strike price is and there's no leverage used because you have the cash to cover it. And I think this is a really good option for me. At least it's something I'm looking at because if I like the business, but I think it's still trading at too high of a valuation currently.

[00:39:22] [SPEAKER_00] What I can just do in this type of situation is sell the put option at a price at which I would be happy to buy the stock at if it dropped to that point. If the option is exercised, I buy the stock at that price and I like the valuation to begin with, so why not? Plus I collect the extra money from the premium. If the option is not exercised, then I still collect the premium. The nice thing about this strategy is when markets are very volatile and sentiment is especially bearish.

[00:39:52] [SPEAKER_00] The price for put, so the premium you'll get for selling these puts tends to go up because investors get nervous and they want downside protection. So you can really use that to your advantage. The last thing I'll mention here because I'm sure there are some people that never dabbled into options and this is new for them. A single contract of options. If you just sell one put option, one contract, it's 100 shares.

[00:40:19] [SPEAKER_00] So if I sell, for example, one put contract of Amazon at a strike price $150, it means that if it is exercise, I'm on the hook for $15,000 because I'll have to buy 100 shares of Amazon at $150 each. Which is fine, but you have to keep in mind that knowing that not all investors will have

[00:40:42] [SPEAKER_00] necessarily enough of a portfolio to be able to make sense of this without being overly allocated to that one position. I just wanted to make, just specify that just so people don't get into trouble if that's a strategy that they're looking to look at. But it is definitely a strategy that I'll be considering, especially if we see more volatility and a more bearish sentiment and I start realizing that some really good companies, people are

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_00] willing to buy some put option at a pretty high premium and I'm able to sell them for a strike price that I actually think it's a really good purchase at that point. I think it's a really good strategy to get a little bit of income and take advantage of really volatile bearish markets. I have nothing to add. I will never do this. No?

[00:41:37] [SPEAKER_00] But you have to admit it's not a bad strategy per se, right? Like to be able to collect that premium and if you like a company at a certain price, you know, you could just sell that contract and then you'll buy it if it hits that.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_01] It's actually, my comment is not on if I think it's good or bad. I think it's actually a comment to your first segment. Just, this just ain't in my policy. It's just so far out of my policy zone. No, I mean, I think it's useful for listeners, everyone to be educated around the different

[00:42:19] [SPEAKER_01] types of investment strategies that people use so that they can know like if they have to pay attention to it or not. So I think that that can be a little bit of an intimidating factor or like, you know, you get a little bit of imposter syndrome when you're new to the market and people are talking about complex strategies. They're talking about trading candlesticks and weird squiggly line pattern technical analysis of some sort of bearish cup and handle pattern.

[00:42:48] [SPEAKER_01] And you feel like an idiot. Like, I don't know what that means. But until you realize like what it is and you're like, oh, I know what that is. And I'm glad that I never have to know what it is again. You know what I mean? Like there is some sort of value in educating yourself on all of these things. So it's like, it's like, it's back to the, to Munger. It's like the Munger quote, you're like, tell me where I'll die. So I never go there. That's how I feel with a lot of this stuff. It's not that it doesn't have merit.

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_01] It's not, it's just not for me, but, but I like the explanation. This is the, it's helpful for me going through it.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. This, and just so I'm clear too, it's, you know, options can get very complex and there are like, this is a more, this is definitely a very simple ways to use an option. And I think it's a way that long-term investors can actually use options to their benefit. As long as they understand the risk, there are some risks, the primary risk with this, it's quite simple. You know, if you have a strike price at like whatever the company is, but it's trading a

[00:43:52] [SPEAKER_00] hundred strike prices, 90, and then the company drops to 50 while you still have time on that options contract. Well, the risk is that, you know, you're going to have to buy the stock at $90 when you could have bought it on the open market for 50. So that is the risk that you're facing. But I think the way I like to see it's like, you know what? I'll make my assessments on a company. I'll establish a price that I think it's a good buy. It's a good valuation. It makes sense for the company.

[00:44:21] [SPEAKER_00] If it goes lower than it goes lower. It's not the end of the world. I'm happy to own this company for that price. And that's the mindset. I think you have to enter when you do a cash-to-curred put, like I said. But again, it's not for, you know, it's not for small amounts of money. And I think that's really important for people. I gave the example of Amazon. Let's be honest, like to be able to do that, you probably need a portfolio that is well into

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_00] the six digits to be able to do that and not be overly concentrated to Amazon. So that's just an example. That's the reality that when you have contracts that are in lots of 100, you're going to need a portfolio that's larger to be able to do those options.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_01] We're at the end of the show here, which means our weekly checkup on Polymarket tracking the election. We haven't done that in a while.

[00:45:16] [SPEAKER_00] Let me pull it up.

[00:45:18] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, pull it up. Okay, so it is currently, it is April 15th. It's going to be a big week though for this. Yeah. Yes, the election is two Mondays away. Two Mondays away. It's the 28th, right? Yeah, the 28th. I will be in Chicago for work. So I'm actually voting this coming Friday. I'm doing early. I've never voted early before.

[00:45:44] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah, I need to figure it out for me because I moved, right? So and I'm not in the same area for voting. Right. So I haven't changed my address for everything. So I don't know how that's going to work out, but we'll see.

[00:45:59] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah, it'll be fine. It'll work out. I'm going to vote this Friday. Early voting. Okay, so polls on Polymarket. So folks who are not familiar with Polymarket, it's not a poll. It is people actually taking an event contract with real money on if they think the next prime minister of Canada will be Mark Carney or Pierre Polyev.

[00:46:27] [SPEAKER_01] And right now, the 74% chance on Mark Carney, you can buy that option contract or event contract, or 27 cents on Pierre Polyev. So that's the that's today's math.

[00:46:45] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And the way it works is you buy. So if you buy Carney at 74 cents and he ends up winning, essentially that value will go up to a dollar. So it's always based on the dollar. And again, same thing. So if you buy Pierre Polyev to win at 27 cents and he wins, the value will go up to a dollar. And obviously your profit, you'll probably you'll like 3x your money roughly if you do that. But there's other ways to make money.

[00:47:12] [SPEAKER_00] You can buy, for example, Polyev at 27 cents. And then let's say he does really well in the debate. And then his chances go up to, let's say it's a 50-50 coin flip. Well, you've pretty much doubled your money at that point if you sell then, because then people will be buying out. Exactly. If you cash out. It's a predictions market. So it's a bit like, I mean, it is kind of gambling if you'd like, but people will use a lot of different data for that.

[00:47:40] [SPEAKER_00] But it is different than traditional polls. And I've seen people push back against it. But my opinion is always, look, it's one other data point. You don't need to rely solely on this. Look at the polls too.

[00:47:54] [SPEAKER_01] Well, people get emotional because they conflate their political stance on the reality of this prediction betting market. People are putting real capital in and call it manipulated, call it whatever you want. I'll still take this accuracy over a poll done by some pollsters. I mean, the U.S. election, this was much more smart money than any poll.

[00:48:24] [SPEAKER_01] You saw that Donald Trump was like an 80% favorite when all the polls were saying it was a coin flip, like the day of the election, basically.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah, as the polls were closing. So, I mean, we'll see. I think it's going to be fascinating what happens. And clearly there's not going to be as much money splashing around for this one than the U.S. election. That's very clear. But it's just a very interesting thing. No matter who you want to win, I think it's really interesting, fascinating. And polls, right? Polls have some advantages, disadvantages.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_00] Like, it's always hard to figure out if the sample that they're choosing for a poll is very, is actually representative of the overall population. And I think that's always the tricky part. And then with our parliamentary system, even if they're 50-50 in the polls, while just the way that, you know, our system works, it could be a landslide win from one side or the other, depending on how the votes are actually spread out.

[00:49:25] [SPEAKER_00] So, it's very difficult to even establish with polls, too.

[00:49:28] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. This is shocking to me, these numbers, I guess.

[00:49:32] [SPEAKER_00] I'm very tempted to bet, I'll be honest, put some money on PR here because I think with the debates, it'll be very – I think the debates could make this make or break for either candidate. I think it's –

[00:49:46] [SPEAKER_01] It seems like a pretty good risk arbitrage on 27 cents.

[00:49:51] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And this is not gambling or investment advice. This is just our personal opinion. You're at the end of the show, people.

[00:49:58] [SPEAKER_01] Come on.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. It's just, you know, I think Pierre is better versed in French. So, I think he could have definitely an edge there just based on the language on the French debate. I haven't seen Mark Kearney debate all that much. But he's not a career politician like Pierre who has done this for like 15-20 years. So, I don't think it's a 0% chance that, you know, it goes up after the debate. I don't think it's, you know, it's an impossibility.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_00] Or like it could be a wash and then it just stays like this afterwards. Like that's also a very possible outcome. So, no, it's – I just find it very fascinating to look at.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_01] I'll kind of state my case again here on my thoughts on here, which I happily stated last week, which is I fear Canadians have lost the script in an effort to be anything but mega. Do you know what I mean? Do you know what I mean by that?

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_01] Like in an effort to be anything but mega, the status quo is better than – you know, the status quo is better than change. In an effort to be anything but conservative mega, I think that that has been a trend that you've seen and you're seeing it in these numbers. You're seeing it on Polymarket here with the Canadian sentiment on which way they think the election is going to go.

[00:51:23] [SPEAKER_01] And I believe that to be a big mistake if Canada is going to come out the other side better. No single metric you can possibly be proud of in this country from an economical perspective at all.

[00:51:40] [SPEAKER_01] And I know that's not the only thing to life, but we should not be the worst G7 country on almost any way you slice it across so many different variables, quality of life, economy, everything over the last 10 years.

[00:52:00] [SPEAKER_01] We should not, given where we are, the resources we have, the location we have, being right next door to the US, whether you like it or not. You talked about this last episode, Simon. Whether you like it or not, Canada and US trade policy over the next five years probably get closer than it ever has.

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_01] And I know that is not what people think. They're like, oh, screw the US. We're going to do it on our own. Get real. Like, honestly, get real. Like, come back to life. Like, you had your little time. Get back to real life. We need to work with the US and we need to be strong.

[00:52:43] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. Yeah. It's not going to be an easy balance to do. But I think the reality is that and I think what the shift we've seen from the US administration since we last recorded, even, I think we're seeing more and more. I think what I was saying is that you'll see almost a block, a North American block, possibly a hemisphere block that will be led by the US, whether Europe joins in on that.

[00:53:11] [SPEAKER_00] But it feels more and more where there's going to be these closer trading blocks. And it feels like also the US is trying to get most of the world against China and using its leverage again for that. I don't know what the end game policy is, but that's kind of my perception on how things will evolve. And keep in mind, like, Trump could be gone in three and a half years.

[00:53:35] [SPEAKER_00] And I still think that we're going to see a more closer North American block, even if Trump is gone and the Democrats come in. I still think long term, we're probably going to see that.

[00:53:49] [SPEAKER_01] And the US is in a cold, what do I call it, a cold AI war with China. And that's been obvious for, you know, many, many years. Their strategic rollout, that's why I think their strategic rollout with the tariffs on all these different countries calculated on trade deficits was one of the biggest strategic blunders I can possibly think of. Like, you know, you get the, you get the, his supporters, they call it the art of the deal.

[00:54:17] [SPEAKER_01] I'm like, that was literally the worst possible strategic rollout I can think of. And so they destroyed a lot of goodwill that they had. They hurt a lot of goodwill with the people that are going to be ex-China that they need to work with. Exactly. Now, I think. Including Canada.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And I mean, look, I can understand why you want to do the art of the deal, right? You like kind of put the worst case scenario there so you can kind of come in to, you know, a lesser amount or, you know, what you had in mind from the beginning because you started so off on the extreme of the spectrum. But geopolitics is not, you know, running a real estate business.

[00:55:04] [SPEAKER_00] And I think Trump is realizing that, you know, countries will look after themselves. They may align for the U.S. out of necessity in the short to medium term. But they're also going to be starting to plan contingency plans that they would not have planned six months ago. And I think we're going to start seeing that.

[00:55:26] [SPEAKER_00] And like even Canada, like as much as I, you know, we just talked about it, but Canada should also have some contingency plans too. And Europe should also have some because at the end of the day, you just, you know, there's that little seed of doubt, right? That's in your head as if you think about like country to country relations.

[00:55:47] [SPEAKER_01] Trading partners like Canada, for example, probably didn't a year ago have what I'll call a plan B when it comes to some of these trading partner relationships. Whether or not we have to go with plan or plan B, us, many of the other countries that have lost some good faith here are developing plan B. Is that a fair, is that a fair sense? I think so. And that really hurts the U.S.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah.

[00:56:14] [SPEAKER_01] Whether or not happens or not, developing the plan B is not good for their economy, I would say.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_00] Yeah. And it just hurts if you're trying to get people on your side that have traditionally been your allies that now you've eroded some of that trust. And obviously there's back channel stuff that happens all the time. There has been, there always has been, you know, there's deals that never really come public. And that will always happen.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_00] But there's a big difference between doing some back channel deals under the radar and then going public and making this big show out of it. Like these leaders of these countries, like a lot of them have egos. Clearly Trump has an ego. Clearly the leader Xi Jinping has an ego. Yeah. I know.

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_00] But when you go public like that, you really attack them in a way that now they can't save face anymore and they really have to come up with contingency plans. Like that's, yeah, that's unfortunately the result of it. And I think long term it's going to hurt the U.S. How badly? We'll have to see, but I think it will.

[00:57:24] [SPEAKER_01] What I will say is I think I've seen some irrationality from my fellow Canadians on U.S., the reality of working with the U.S. and industry that we have and the realities of supply chains. I've seen some just really irrational behavior there too as well. So like we need to, let's not lose the script here, right?

[00:57:50] [SPEAKER_01] Like we are big, large allies, defense and trading partners with the U.S. That needs to continue depending on what you think of the next three and a half years with Donald Trump. Let's not get delirious here, right? Like stay grounded, leave your emotions off the table, like come back to life. This is important for us to get right.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_01] And in an effort to be anything but MAGA, I feel we are losing the voter base, I feel is losing the script on what we need to do in Canada to get things, you know, back on track for the country. And that means a lot of things. I don't think I really have to explain it. I mean, I don't really think lowest of the G7 GDP per capita is a trend that we want to continue.

[00:58:48] [SPEAKER_01] All employment going to public sector, no private sector, no self-employment growth. Is that the trend that I want? No, it's not the trend I want.

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_00] Well, probably just one last thing, maybe not on the investment side, but let's also keep our decency. Like I've seen some reports, right? There was, I read an article where this American couple were in Whistler for a ski trip and they got onto a gondola. And then this Canadian lady just started like yelling at them saying like, how could you do that to Canada and being super aggressive and stuff like that? Look, at the end of the day, half the country voted for Trump.

[00:59:27] [SPEAKER_00] And for those who voted for Trump, a lot of them are not happy with what he's doing right now. So you have to keep that in mind. A lot of them voted because they just wanted change and they just voted for the only option that was in the current administration. And now they're regretting their, I know I've seen a lot of people that are regretting their choice right now. And it's, you know, what he's doing, what Donald Trump is doing, what his administration is doing. It's not a reflection of all Americans.

[00:59:56] [SPEAKER_00] There's still very good people there. There's still some nice people there. I have family there. I know you have a lot of connections there. And I think that's just important for people to remember is just, you know, keep, let's keep our decency here. If you don't want to travel to the U.S. because you don't, you know, you feel like, you know, that's a way for us to hit back. Don't travel. That's fine. But you don't need to, you know, berate Americans when they come to visit Canada, for example.

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_01] Yeah. Well put. That is a loser move. It's like the, you know, it's like not going to centerize to shake the other team's hand after a playoff game. You know, like that's the kind of like, that's the same energy to me. It's like just having no sportsmanship, no decency, no ethics to it. So I wholeheartedly agree. And it's not grounded in reality is what it is.

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_01] It's just not grounded in reality of the relationship that the two countries have. Yeah. It's just so far from, it's short-term emotionalism is what it is. Anyways, I think we can leave it at that. Thank you so much for listening to the pod. We much appreciate you. We are here Mondays and Thursdays. For those who know, listened last week. I think next week's my last recording here for a bit, but I'm still going to be around. Yeah, I think it is.

[01:01:21] [SPEAKER_01] I'm going to do the quarterly mastermind with you guys. We'll call them like meeting of the minds Q1 or something.

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_00] And my prediction is that maybe not every quarter, but maybe once or twice a year, I'm going to get a text from Braden because there's a big event that happened. He's like, okay, can I come on like randomly? Yeah, exactly. I feel like I'm going to see a few of those texts between now and the end of the year. That's just my suspicion. Just knowing you. You know me well. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_01] You're right. And you know what? In six months, I might also give you a call and say, I really missed this. I don't know. I don't know. That's also a potential outcome. And maybe eventually when I felt self in chat, I'm going to want to blab here all day, every day. You know? So I don't know. Like I said before in the pod, I reserve the right to change my mind.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_01] And I just appreciate you guys and I appreciate the listeners. And no one more than you yourself, my man. So yeah, thank you for listening to the show. Thank you for support all through these years. And it goes a long way. It really does.

[01:02:35] [SPEAKER_00] The Canadian Investor Podcast should not be construed as investment or financial advice. The hosts and guests featured may own securities or assets discussed on this podcast. Always do your own due diligence or consult with a financial professional before making any financial or investment decisions.