The Top Stories of 2024 for Canadian Investors

[00:00:01] This is The Canadian Investor, where you take control of your own portfolio and gain the confidence you need to succeed in the markets. Hosted by Braden Dennis and Simon Belanger

[00:00:14] Welcome back to the Canadian Investor Podcast. I'm here with Dan Kent. We are back, but we're not doing a regular news and earnings because we're recording this in advance. We're recording this on Friday, December 13th. So you'll probably you'll hear this during the holidays. Not quite sure which day yet, but keep that in mind when we start posting about returns and things like that.

[00:00:39] It may be slightly outdated when you hear this, but it is a year in review episode that we're doing. So I think it's still the content will still be very relevant, even if it's a couple of weeks in the future.

[00:00:52] So before we get started, Dan, how are you doing? And we actually got some closure on terms of the Bank of Canada this week.

[00:00:59] Yeah, we got I had predicted they would cut 50 basis points again. I mean, I think the data supported it.

[00:01:07] It's not looking too good for the Canadian dollar at this point. I mean, we'll talk about all that stuff in this episode, but it's definitely been a very interesting 2024.

[00:01:17] I mean, stocks are up huge. Crypto's up huge. Canadian dollars down huge. I mean, crazy.

[00:01:23] You have to be pretty you have to you would have had to try pretty hard to be down this year. Let's just say.

[00:01:30] Yeah, you would have had to. Yeah, pretty safe to say you would have had to done very bad.

[00:01:36] Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, that's why I started with the Bank of Canada, because, of course, one of the big stories this year is that the Bank of Canada finally reduced its interest rates.

[00:01:47] The BOC did its first rate cut of 25 basis point on June 5th, 2024, and they cut four more times afterwards.

[00:01:56] So you had 25 basis point in July, 25 in September, 50 in October, and then just a couple of days ago, 50 in December.

[00:02:05] So that brought the rate from 5% to 3.25%. Now, what's really what I think people tend to forget here is that, you know, it would be one thing if this happened, you know, started happening in January, February.

[00:02:22] But this essentially 175 basis point of cuts in six months. Yeah, which is is something else, because if you go back to the end of 2023, most economists and the big banks were it was kind of all over the place.

[00:02:37] But if I remember correctly, I think the most aggressive ones were probably around 125 basis point 150 for the really, really most aggressive.

[00:02:46] But you had some banks that were looking more 100 basis points. And then you fast forwarded in like April, May, and you saw a lot of economists starting revising saying, oh, there might be like, you know, two, three, four cuts until the end of the year, because obviously close to half of the year had happened.

[00:03:03] And I'm pretty sure if you asked most economists back in May, if they thought it was realistic for the overnight rate to be 3.25% in December, I would go and wager that most of them would say you're crazy, it's not going to happen. But here we are, right?

[00:03:20] Yeah, I mean, I remember, I think it was in the bold predictions at the start of the year, I said 200 basis points, I think 200 or 250. I can't remember what I said.

[00:03:30] But I mean, like halfway through the year, I thought there's absolutely no chance I'm even going to be coming close to that.

[00:03:36] But I mean, you get these two big jumbo cuts, which again, I think are actually justified.

[00:03:42] And I mean, we're sitting now at, you know, some pretty big rake.

[00:03:46] I would argue that this has got to be the biggest news on the year in terms of, you know, Canada as a whole, just because of, you know, the whole mortgage situation here in Canada as well.

[00:03:56] I mean, that was a main highlight for numerous years.

[00:03:59] I mean, you have all these pandemic mortgages that are coming due, and probably I would say on average in the next year or two here.

[00:04:06] I mean, I know a ton of people.

[00:04:07] Yeah, 2025, 2026 are the two big years.

[00:04:10] The two big years.

[00:04:11] And I mean, this has come at, you know, a pretty key time.

[00:04:15] So I would, as I said, I would say biggest news on the year for sure.

[00:04:19] Yeah, exactly.

[00:04:20] And I think it's a good reminder for people because that the Bank of Canada only controls the overnight rates.

[00:04:27] So if you have variable loans, clearly that's something that would impact you.

[00:04:32] But when it comes at the end of the day, like it's not, they don't have that big of an impact when you start looking at the Canada five-year bond.

[00:04:40] And I'm just pulling this over here for joint TCI listeners.

[00:04:44] And it's, I mean, the yield here has been a bit all over the place since the beginning of the year.

[00:04:51] Now it's around 3% as we're recording today.

[00:04:55] But for, you know, people that, you know, that are interested here.

[00:04:59] So you'll be able to see that it went all over the place throughout the year.

[00:05:04] So you started the year probably around like 3.25 for the five-year in Canada.

[00:05:09] Kind of peaked around 3.8, 3.85.

[00:05:12] I'm looking at graph here.

[00:05:13] So that peaked, you know, April, May.

[00:05:16] And then has been kind of coming down ever since.

[00:05:19] So it kind of lines up a little bit here with the Bank of Canada cutting rates.

[00:05:23] But if you just listen to what I'm saying, it's at 3% now.

[00:05:28] It peaked around, let's just say 3.80 roughly or so, 3.85.

[00:05:32] It still did not go down as much as the rates have gone down with the Bank of Canada.

[00:05:37] And not only that, you actually are seeing a little bit of a spike now in the last week or so.

[00:05:42] So it kind of dropped around 2.9 and now it's back at 3.

[00:05:46] So it's just a reminder here that, yes, the Bank of Canada cutting probably has, I would say, has some impact.

[00:05:53] But it's not the main driver.

[00:05:55] The main driver here is what the bond market thinks.

[00:05:58] And, of course, what the bond market thinks in the U.S., especially with the U.S. 10-year.

[00:06:03] So I think it's a good reminder because if people are refinancing their mortgages or it's coming up and they're looking at fixed rates,

[00:06:10] fixed rates have been relatively stable for the last four or five months, I would say.

[00:06:15] They've been kind of in this range around, like, depending if you're looking at, you know, an insured mortgage, insurable mortgage or an uninsurable mortgage.

[00:06:25] Without going into too much detail, you'll have different rates based on what type of mortgage it is.

[00:06:31] It's kind of stayed within like a 4% range, right?

[00:06:35] Like, just to make it pretty general.

[00:06:37] So I think it's a good reminder.

[00:06:39] Obviously, variable rates have been going down pretty aggressively.

[00:06:42] But it's just a good reminder here that the bond markets control these fixed mortgage rates.

[00:06:48] Yeah.

[00:06:50] I mean, we've had, what, 175 basis points in cuts.

[00:06:54] And, I mean, I think fixed rate mortgages have maybe come down like 75 basis points.

[00:06:59] I mean, usually before the rate cut, you could see anywhere from, you know, 4.75 to 5.25%.

[00:07:06] And now they're – I think you can get 3.99% now.

[00:07:09] So, yeah, they haven't come down even close to, you know, how much policy rates have declined.

[00:07:15] I mean, obviously, variable rate holders are the ones who receive the most relief at this point.

[00:07:21] I mean, depending on how big your mortgage is, I mean, 175 basis points can be like hundreds of dollars on a monthly basis.

[00:07:29] So it's good relief at that point.

[00:07:32] But it's going to be interesting to see how fixed rate mortgages move over the next year and whether, you know, bond yields start coming down.

[00:07:39] Because as you said, they're continuing to go up right now.

[00:07:42] I mean, they've come down for the most of the year, but that short spike over the last week or so here we've seen is probably something that's going to keep fixed rates relatively stable at this point at least.

[00:07:54] Yeah, and I think it's also a good reminder that the housing market, real estate, is more than just interest rates.

[00:08:01] And I think a lot of people, including, you know, I think Royal LePage is very famous for being super bullish.

[00:08:10] Surprise, surprise.

[00:08:11] But, you know, with their predictions and they've been essentially, I think it's Phil Soper, he's been wrong for the last two, three years.

[00:08:19] Every year, things like the market's going to rip and his revision on what happened is oftentimes not super transparent either.

[00:08:28] But having said that, I've seen his prediction.

[00:08:31] It was always like, oh, as soon as the bank can, it starts cutting, it's the market's going to rip pretty much.

[00:08:36] I'm just, you know, obviously putting that in my own words here.

[00:08:40] But I think we've also seen that the markets, even though there was a small increase in volume in the fall, it was still well below historical averages.

[00:08:50] Prices increased a little bit on the year-over-year basis during the fall, but again, it was not seasonally adjusted.

[00:08:56] So we'll have to see whether, you know, the spring market actually picks up following these rate cuts from the Bank of Canada.

[00:09:02] I think, I hope not too many people did that, but I think some people ended up, you know, getting into the market and trying to buy now before prices go up,

[00:09:12] listening to these kind of forecasts, and what we're seeing is the market hasn't really taken off despite, you know, let's just forget about the December cut,

[00:09:22] but despite 125 basis point, if we look at prior to that, and you would have thought, you know, listening to these industry experts in air quotes,

[00:09:31] that the markets would have started ripping.

[00:09:33] I mean, most of them were saying as soon as they cut for the first time, it would start happening.

[00:09:37] But I think the reality is, is prices have gone up so much during the pandemic, and yes, they've come down from the peak in most areas a little bit,

[00:09:47] but they haven't come down enough to make it, you know, allow a lot of people to actually qualify with the stress test.

[00:09:55] When you factor in that interest rates, even, you know, the interest rates today at 175 basis point lower at 3.25,

[00:10:03] and when you look at variable mortgages, even despite that, you're still looking at much higher payments,

[00:10:10] because the prices are still very elevated compared to pre-pandemic, for example,

[00:10:16] and when rates were low even during the pandemic at the peak.

[00:10:20] Yeah, and I think what a lot of people might not realize as well is, you know, the last time the housing market was ripping,

[00:10:26] we didn't, you know, have 9 plus percent inflation for, you know, the better part of 6, 8 months to the point where, you know,

[00:10:34] people, even if they qualify, they might not be able to afford it just because of, you know, the overall cost of everything else.

[00:10:42] I mean, like...

[00:10:43] Wages haven't kept up.

[00:10:44] Wages haven't kept up.

[00:10:45] So, you know, food's gone up, utility bills have gone up, cost of vehicles,

[00:10:49] like the cost of absolutely everything you can think of has gone up, gasoline, things like that.

[00:10:54] So, I mean...

[00:10:54] There's phone bills.

[00:10:55] Phone bills, I think.

[00:10:56] They're going down.

[00:10:57] Yes.

[00:10:58] Yeah.

[00:10:58] So, sorry, BC.

[00:10:59] And clothing.

[00:11:00] I think clothing is...

[00:11:01] Yeah.

[00:11:02] I mean, there's no guarantee that falling rates are going to fuel the housing market because people,

[00:11:07] like, even if rates, you know, go down another 100 basis points,

[00:11:11] like, I still think there's a massive affordability crisis in this country that, you know,

[00:11:17] you may never see that COVID-type wall.

[00:11:20] We're probably not going to see the, you know, COVID housing market surge.

[00:11:24] I mean, I'm not going to say ever again, but I mean, if people are expecting activity like that,

[00:11:29] I just don't think it's ever going to come back.

[00:11:31] Look, it may pick up a bit in the spring.

[00:11:33] I really don't know.

[00:11:34] I'm not in the forecast, like, in the business of making real estate forecasts.

[00:11:37] I'm not, you know, I probably would ask Dan Foch and Nick Hill from the Canadian Real

[00:11:43] Estate Investor Podcast to make those predictions.

[00:11:45] But I think at the end of the day, even if rates continue to go lower, you know, the Bank of Canada and let's say fixed rates even start going lower as well.

[00:11:54] The reality is our unemployment rate has been going up.

[00:11:57] The job market is not looking great in Canada.

[00:11:59] So, you know, will that just nullify this, you know, these lower rates?

[00:12:06] It's very possible.

[00:12:07] Of course, I know there's the new regulations that are kicking in on December 15th.

[00:12:12] So, they will have kicked in by the time you listen to this where the federal government essentially now if you want to purchase a home up to 1.5 million.

[00:12:21] Previously, it was up to 1 million.

[00:12:23] You can actually get it insured.

[00:12:25] So, you can get CMHC insured and your down payments requirements instead of being 20% for anything over 1 million.

[00:12:33] Now, it's essentially going to be around like depending on which price, it's going to probably be around like 7 to 10%, right?

[00:12:43] That you'll need in terms of minimum down payment, which makes a huge difference.

[00:12:47] But people still have to qualify for the mortgage and have the proper income to do that.

[00:12:52] So, all these things kind of, you know, come into play.

[00:12:55] And of course, there's the 30-year amortization that's coming into play for first-time homebuyers.

[00:12:59] So, there's just so many variables.

[00:13:00] I think it's just really hard to really have a feel of where the market will go next year.

[00:13:06] So, I think, you know, I think it's a wait-and-see approach.

[00:13:09] But I think it's just, you know, I just want to restate this that lower rates does not necessarily mean that the housing market will start ripping.

[00:13:18] Yeah, I mean, it definitely, you know, helps, I guess, that the government has pretty much introduced everything to fuel demand, but nothing really to help supply.

[00:13:28] Yeah.

[00:13:29] I mean, it's like, yeah, that's probably a topic for an entirely different podcast.

[00:13:35] But don't get me started on those policies.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:42] Let's just switch a little bit here before we go to the next takeaway for the year in review.

[00:13:49] Of course, lower rates do have an impact on investment.

[00:13:53] So, there are certain sectors that will do better as rates are getting lower.

[00:13:58] I'm thinking here of, like, higher-yielding dividend stocks start becoming more attractive because people are looking for yield.

[00:14:04] Whereas, when you have rates at 5%, I mean, if you're not looking to take any capital risk, you can just get 5% and, you know, sleep well with GICs at night.

[00:14:15] Whereas now, if you're looking for income, as rates start getting lower, and let's say you do want to achieve that 4%, 5%, 6% yield,

[00:14:24] well, pretty much your only options, at least in Canada, will be to start looking at dividend stocks.

[00:14:30] So, I think it could be a benefit for these type of companies who also tend to have higher amounts of debt.

[00:14:36] I know I'm lumping them in a large category, but typically the companies that are paying 4%, 5%, 6%, 7% dividends tend to be more mature businesses.

[00:14:46] They will have to, you know, they tend to have a bit more debt.

[00:14:49] So, something to keep in mind.

[00:14:51] Lower rates will clearly help them if they are refinancing.

[00:14:54] But, again, depending on when they took out that debt, it could mean that, yes, it's helping them a little bit.

[00:15:02] But the fixed rates are still based on the spread with bond yields.

[00:15:07] So, it doesn't mean that it will go as low as what the Bank of Canada is doing.

[00:15:12] Of course, if they're getting variable debt, then, yes, the overnight rate will have a big impact on that.

[00:15:17] But that brings me to an example that we've talked to a lot is something like BCE, right?

[00:15:21] So, BCE, yes, you can get close to, I think, 11% now yield.

[00:15:26] But the reality is BC has a lot of debt to be refinanced in the upcoming year.

[00:15:31] And most of that debt will be refinanced at higher interest rate.

[00:15:35] And there's a big renewal wall coming up in the next couple of years for companies that took out a lot of debt during the pandemic

[00:15:42] that will be refinancing that debt likely at higher rates than where they took debt.

[00:15:48] So, it will be, I guess, it's maybe something more for our bold prediction episode that will be coming up.

[00:15:53] But it will be something to keep an eye on for 25 and 26, not only in Canada, but also in the U.S.

[00:15:59] Yeah.

[00:16:00] I mean, if you look to companies like utilities are a prime example of when rates are high,

[00:16:06] you know, 5%, you might not feel the need to take any equity risk by holding a utility that's yielding that similar amount, right?

[00:16:14] Whereas now, if you look to a company like Fortis, they're up, I believe it's 20 some percent since they started, you know, aggressively cutting rates.

[00:16:22] So, you can tell there's, you know, more money flooding back to there.

[00:16:25] And I mean, in terms of BCE, the one important thing would be also is, you know, yield is not total return.

[00:16:32] I mean, it's, you could have grabbed, well, I mean, what would the yield have been at the start of the year?

[00:16:37] Probably 7, 8%.

[00:16:39] But I mean, you're down 30 some percent.

[00:16:42] So, I mean, the company's down 30% this year.

[00:16:45] So, I mean, it's very important to, obviously, you know, you're taking on equity risk when you buy stocks.

[00:16:53] I mean, there's chance for your underlying principal to, you know, not be what it was when you initially bought.

[00:17:00] So, that's another added risk there as well.

[00:17:03] But as you mentioned, like a lot of those higher yielding dividend stocks, they don't have very much floating rate debt.

[00:17:09] They lock in a lot of it.

[00:17:10] Like if you look at a company like Fortis, I believe they're like 3% or 4% in terms of floating rate debt.

[00:17:15] So, they don't get much immediate relief on, you know, previous debt.

[00:17:21] Whereas, you know, new financing will probably come in a bit cheaper.

[00:17:24] But as you mentioned, it all depends on, you know, bond rates, things like that as well.

[00:17:28] And when the debt was actually issued, right?

[00:17:31] I think that's one of the biggest things.

[00:17:33] Now, we'll move on here because another big story with lower rates from the Bank of Canada.

[00:17:38] Canada, obviously, there's been and we've seen that being exacerbated in the past month, since a month and a half since Donald Trump has been elected as the president for the next four years.

[00:17:51] But the Canadian dollar is just getting completely hammered compared to the U.S. dollar.

[00:17:56] So, do you want to start on that?

[00:17:58] And I'll probably chime in a little bit here.

[00:18:00] Yeah, so the interesting thing is, is the Canadian dollar, I don't know if you noticed it, but it actually like spiked when they cut rates upwards.

[00:18:08] Yeah.

[00:18:08] But now has, I don't know what that would be from.

[00:18:11] Yeah, I think it was just with the commentary.

[00:18:13] So, essentially, they were saying that they might not be kind of like, they're still looking to cut rates, but it may be a bit slower now.

[00:18:24] So, I think the market kind of like the fact that, you know, I guess we'll have to see.

[00:18:29] But, you know, I think it's pretty safe to say now that like another 50 basis points is very, very unlikely that they probably will do either 25, maybe take a break for a meeting, then start cutting the next one.

[00:18:43] Like, I think there's just a pace will likely be slower.

[00:18:47] Most economists I've listened to, I've listened to David Rosenberg a couple of times, read a few pieces of his too.

[00:18:54] Most economists expect the rates to keep going down.

[00:18:57] Some are even predicting around 2%, but it's just the pace of the rates going down maybe a bit slower than some had predicted.

[00:19:05] 2% policy rate, not 2% more declines.

[00:19:08] Okay.

[00:19:09] 2% policy rate, yes.

[00:19:11] That's correct.

[00:19:12] So, I mean, we're right now, we're just hovering on the Canadian dollar breaking 70 cents effectively.

[00:19:18] Like, it's at 70.2 cents right now.

[00:19:21] And this is, you know, this is some of the lowest points in currency exchange we've witnessed in, you know, a couple decades.

[00:19:29] The actual, like the actual last time we got the dollar this low was during the COVID-19 crash.

[00:19:34] But I think that situation is very different now.

[00:19:37] And the dollar, you know, it was, you know, oil demand collapse, things like that.

[00:19:41] And it was also, you know, a flash crash pandemic type shutdown.

[00:19:44] So, I don't really look at that too, too much.

[00:19:47] But, I mean, when we look at the dollar in terms of relative strength over the long term, I mean, we're looking back to, you know, 20 plus years.

[00:19:55] And, I mean, the policy rate divergence when it comes to Canada and the U.S. is one the Bank of Canada says isn't really all that big of a concern.

[00:20:02] But it is certainly reflected in the big pressure on the Canadian dollar at this point.

[00:20:07] Now we're down, again, we're down to, what, 3.25%, whereas the U.S. is still sitting, you know, 4.75, 4.5 to 4.75, I believe.

[00:20:16] I think so.

[00:20:17] Is there lower and upper rates?

[00:20:18] So, I mean, we're getting, you know, more than a percent here.

[00:20:21] And, I mean, the main issue here is the U.S. economy is strong enough where the Fed doesn't really feel they need to cut rates.

[00:20:27] While the Canadian economy, I personally think, is in, you know, a world of hurt.

[00:20:32] I mean, we got restaurants and small businesses losing money.

[00:20:35] I mean, unemployment's at seven-year highs.

[00:20:37] Even though rates are coming down, again, we talked about it, those fixed-rate mortgages are not necessarily coming down at the same pace.

[00:20:45] So, we're going to have, you know, I still know some people who are, you know, looking at 1.7%, 1.8% fixed-rate mortgages that are going to have to renew next year.

[00:20:54] So, I mean, even though rates have come down that much, I mean, they're still looking at 4% fixed-rate mortgages.

[00:21:00] So, I mean, in turn, that's going to put some pressure on.

[00:21:03] And, I mean, there's also the fact that just the U.S. dollar is, in effect, strengthening.

[00:21:08] It's not exactly just the Canadian dollar weakening, although that's, you know, that is a major part into it.

[00:21:13] But the U.S. dollar is also strengthening relative to other currencies.

[00:21:18] And I think you can comment on that a bit because I remember you had some data on that.

[00:21:23] But really, it doesn't, you know, the wide divergence and just the overall economy doesn't really make Canada an attractive place to park your capital.

[00:21:31] And as a result, it's really not that surprising to see a bit of money flowing out of Canadian dollars and the Canadian dollar dropping.

[00:21:38] It's lost over 6% of its value in 2024.

[00:21:42] I mean, this is a fairly big dip when it comes to a major currency.

[00:21:46] We've had plenty of dips like this, 2018, 2022, that flash crash in 2020.

[00:21:51] But the difficulty is we've often seen a bit of a recovery after a poor year.

[00:21:56] But I mean, since the midpoint of 2021, which would have been like, you know, peak oil demand, like energy was going crazy coming out of the pandemic.

[00:22:03] That was when the dollar was, I mean, I believe it was at 83 cents or 84 cents at peak near there.

[00:22:10] I mean, it's just been on a constant downward spiral and is one that I personally think will get worse.

[00:22:17] I ended up exchanging a bunch of Canadian dollars for US dollars back in 2021 because I thought that, you know, the dollar was pretty attractive at those prices.

[00:22:29] And I'm still buying US dollars today, even though it's at, you know, it's just below, I believe the spreads, I buy it on EQ Bank and the spreads are, you know, they're below 70 cents now.

[00:22:40] So, I mean, the main question here is how low does it go?

[00:22:44] I mean, although it helps, you know, some industries here in Canada, especially, you know, oil and gas producers, things like that.

[00:22:50] It does hurt, obviously, other industries that import from the United States.

[00:22:54] Last year, we imported 53 billion dollars in vehicles, vehicles and auto parts, 40 billion in machinery, 15 billion in electronics.

[00:23:03] Those ultimately hit consumer wallets.

[00:23:06] You know, companies will need to pay more for these products.

[00:23:09] And in turn, I can even think of, you know, some grocery items like fruit, things like that.

[00:23:15] I mean, obviously, a lot of that is imported.

[00:23:18] That's going to hit directly the consumer because of the weakening dollar.

[00:23:22] And in the end, they can end up inflationary.

[00:23:24] And you can get to the point where falling policy rates doesn't really increase consumer spending because people are still pinched pretty hard, even though we've gone down this much.

[00:23:33] And, you know, this is their main lever to, you know, encourage economic growth.

[00:23:39] And we're down 175 basis points now.

[00:23:41] We're not really seeing that.

[00:23:42] Yeah, you know, exactly.

[00:23:44] And I mean, you know, you were talking a bit about the Fed and I'm showing here the Fed funds, the CME Fed watch tool.

[00:23:52] So essentially, the U.S. market is pricing in three rate cuts between now and the end of next year.

[00:23:58] So that's where the odds are at.

[00:24:00] So that would mean if it comes true, then they would not even equal the Bank of Canada's current overnight rate at the end of next year.

[00:24:09] Yeah.

[00:24:09] And that's even if the Bank of Canada does not cut at all for the rest of this year.

[00:24:14] Yeah.

[00:24:15] So, I mean, obviously, this can change, right, forever.

[00:24:18] Like it kept, you know, when was it like the we kept like hearing like even back in 2023, there'd be like a rate cut towards the end of the year and never happened.

[00:24:29] So these things can change.

[00:24:30] And as the data comes in, but it's just to show that, yes, the market is, you know, thinking that the Bank of Canada will be cutting a lot more than the Federal Reserve in the U.S.

[00:24:42] Yeah.

[00:24:43] I mean, if you get three cuts from the U.S. and you get three cuts from Canada, I mean, Canada will be at two and a half and the States will be at, you know, 3.75.

[00:24:51] So that's pretty wide.

[00:24:53] It doesn't, I don't know, it's hard to see.

[00:24:57] I mean, I'm not probably being pessimistic, but it's hard to see any like material improvement in this regard.

[00:25:04] I mean, the Canadian economy is struggling quite a bit.

[00:25:08] Yeah.

[00:25:09] And look, I and I, I read this or I think it was David Rosenberg again when I was reading a piece on on him, you know, given his thoughts.

[00:25:20] I think it was him.

[00:25:21] It could have been someone else.

[00:25:22] And essentially what he was saying is the Bank of Canada is probably being aggressive to to offset potential terrorists from the from the Trump administration.

[00:25:32] If the loonie is lower and they're probably using a weak Canadian dollar to be able to stimulate exports, making potentially investments more attractive to for money coming from the States into Canada.

[00:25:44] Of course, there's the tax element that probably offsets that quite a little bit.

[00:25:49] But, you know, it could be part of the plan is weakening the Canadian dollar to try and stimulate the economy.

[00:25:54] So that could be it.

[00:25:56] It's a fair point.

[00:25:57] I never really thought about that.

[00:25:58] I thought the, you know, the counter or the effects of a lower loonie could be more damaging in terms of potentially reigniting inflation.

[00:26:09] But it looks like inflation, especially when you start stripping out a lot of the volatile components, which is what the Bank of Canada looks at.

[00:26:16] It really is like quite low right now.

[00:26:19] So they may be more concerned about deflationary pressure versus inflationary pressures.

[00:26:24] And that's likely why they're acting like they are right now with lower interest rates.

[00:26:29] But what you were mentioning earlier.

[00:26:31] So, yes, it's not just the Canadian dollar.

[00:26:33] So I think we tend to focus, I guess, rightfully so.

[00:26:36] We're Canadian.

[00:26:36] So we tend to just look at ourselves with the U.S., right?

[00:26:39] The behemoth down south here.

[00:26:41] But it's most fiat currencies that are actually not doing all that well against the U.S. dollar.

[00:26:46] So there's something called the U.S. dollar index.

[00:26:50] And it's called the DXY.

[00:26:52] That's usually what people refer to it.

[00:26:55] So it's essentially a basket of currencies.

[00:26:57] So it's the euro.

[00:26:58] It has a 58% weighting.

[00:27:01] Japanese at 14%.

[00:27:03] The sterling pound at 12%.

[00:27:05] Canadian dollar at 9%.

[00:27:06] And then the Swedish krona and Swiss franc at roughly 4% each of them.

[00:27:11] And that basket has declined over 4.5% year to date.

[00:27:17] So it's not just the Canadian dollar.

[00:27:19] Obviously, if you take the Canadian dollar, it's probably closer to 6-7% decline now year to date.

[00:27:25] But it doesn't have a huge weighting in that basket, granted.

[00:27:29] But I think it's just important to keep in mind that, yes, the Canadian dollar is definitely weaker.

[00:27:36] But it's not just us.

[00:27:38] And there's several reasons for that.

[00:27:40] I think we've covered most of that.

[00:27:41] But the stronger economy in the U.S., the interest rate differential, uncertainty with trade policy, and continued low commodity prices.

[00:27:50] I think these are all kind of probably the primary four aspects that is leading to a lower Canadian dollar.

[00:27:58] Yeah.

[00:27:59] I mean, especially commodity prices, which obviously you can't expect to be good right now considering how weak demand is overall.

[00:28:07] But I mean, I'm still going to keep buying U.S. dollars even at these levels because I do think it's going to go lower.

[00:28:17] You and I alike, you know my portfolio, so you know I'm mostly in U.S. Treasury bills.

[00:28:22] There eventually will be a point here where I might flip some U.S. back into Canadian.

[00:28:27] But it would have to get quite a bit lower than this.

[00:28:30] Yeah, because at the end of the day, too, you're getting higher yield on your USD, right?

[00:28:34] So I think a lot of people just focus on the exchange rate.

[00:28:37] And yes, that's important.

[00:28:39] But, you know, you're not getting, you know, 4% plus on your Canadian dollars anymore, but you are with your USD.

[00:28:47] So I think that is an additional factor that people tend to forget is you are getting like much nicer yield, which is a reason why the Canadian dollar is, you know, has seen some downward pressure.

[00:28:58] Because if you're going to park your money somewhere, you're going to park in the U.S., right?

[00:29:02] Like why would you in Canada if you're a foreign investor?

[00:29:04] So I think it's something to follow.

[00:29:06] I mean, most experts, I think, say that there's going to be continued pressure on the Canadian dollar, at least for the foreseeable future.

[00:29:13] I guess we'll have to see, but we'll move on.

[00:29:16] We've talked enough about interest rates and Canadian dollars.

[00:29:19] So let's talk about the, you know, the gold and mining stocks that I've done quite well over the last year.

[00:29:27] Yeah, so gold has had, you know, one of its better years since, well, essentially when, you know, we were in full-blown pandemic mode and there was a ton of uncertainty, which is, you know, generally when gold does pretty well.

[00:29:42] I mean, many investors back in, you know, 2021, 2022 believe kind of that, you know, the constant money printing would eventually be inflationary and thus owning gold would be a pretty good hedge to that inflation.

[00:29:53] But gold only increased around 24% in 2020.

[00:29:57] And generally for the next few years, it would kind of trade flat, killing that particular thesis or at least causing a lot of investors to stop focusing on it.

[00:30:06] But we fast forward to 2024, gold is up, you know, 28% on the year and is actually set to outperform the S&P 500 in a year in which, you know, the S&P 500 has done very well.

[00:30:17] I mean, it's not, obviously we have, you know, at the time we're filming this, we have a few weeks left of trading.

[00:30:23] So it's not a guarantee, but it's going to be pretty close.

[00:30:26] And I mean, much like when oil does well, oil producers tend to outperform the underlying commodity.

[00:30:32] I mean, gold producers, you know, they're kind of the same situation.

[00:30:35] It's been, you know, an outstanding year to hold them.

[00:30:38] So BMO's equal weight global gold ETF, which effectively takes, you know, a global basket of gold producers.

[00:30:46] It's up more than 46% on the year.

[00:30:49] So it's nearly doubling the returns of the S&P 500 and pretty close to doubling the overall returns of gold.

[00:30:55] And the material sector makes up 9% of the TSX.

[00:30:59] So, I mean, these gold miners are certainly what is driving a significant portion of the TSX, you know, very strong performance in 2024, which you'll speak on next.

[00:31:09] But, you know, oil companies, oil producers, gold producers, things like that.

[00:31:14] They are a big, you know, element of the TSX index.

[00:31:17] And I mean, when we look to one of Canada's largest gold producers in Agnico Eagle,

[00:31:21] it's looking to close the year out nearly 70% in the green and is up over 80% since late February of 2024.

[00:31:30] So, I mean, why has gold performed so well?

[00:31:32] I mean, for one, countries like Russia and China, they're increasing their gold reserves pretty extensively because of all the, you know, geopolitical tensions.

[00:31:39] I mean, this is probably, I'm, you know, certainly not an expert on this, but I would imagine this is, you know,

[00:31:44] in order to reduce their dependence on the U.S. dollar.

[00:31:47] I mean, gold tends to have an intrinsic value that doesn't really go through the volatile aspects of fiat currency would in, you know,

[00:31:55] in these situations of, you know, high geo tensions.

[00:31:59] This isn't the only reason, though.

[00:32:00] I mean, inflation concerns are certainly up there as well.

[00:32:03] Donald Trump's policies are, in general, inflationary, especially the ones regarding tariffs.

[00:32:09] He does love to talk to talk.

[00:32:11] And, you know, depending on how much he walks a walk in January, we're probably going to find out pretty soon.

[00:32:16] We could see inflation rise again.

[00:32:19] And generally, during times like this, you know, gold tends to rise in value.

[00:32:22] And I mean, finally, although inflation has generally decreased down to the 2% to 3% range,

[00:32:28] services inflation remains relatively sticky both here and in the United States.

[00:32:32] This makes it a bit, you know, difficult for policymakers to continue cutting rates despite, you know, how, you know, the economy needing it.

[00:32:39] And I mean, in general, the more uncertain times are, the more logical it is to hold gold and the higher price, you know, the higher the price usually goes.

[00:32:47] I can't see many of the issues we're facing that are impacting gold going away anytime soon.

[00:32:52] And, you know, as a result, I would imagine it continues to go up.

[00:32:56] I mean, it's never a guarantee, but it's had one of its better years in quite some time, which is, you know, kind of fueling the TSX.

[00:33:04] Yeah.

[00:33:04] Yeah.

[00:33:05] And I mean, look, I'm looking here in the past year, so not quite year to date, but it's up, yeah, 32%.

[00:33:10] So it's pretty phenomenal.

[00:33:12] I think it's actually pretty close to the S&P 500 in terms of returns, which is pretty phenomenal.

[00:33:18] And it probably tells you a bit something about what the market is thinking, where fiat currencies are going.

[00:33:24] So I think that's a good indicator.

[00:33:26] But yeah, it's been a good time to hold gold.

[00:33:28] I mean, I've held it now since pretty much the beginning of the year.

[00:33:32] I started in, I think, February, March.

[00:33:35] I've been adding ever since and not adding too much right now.

[00:33:38] I got it to the right portion of my portfolio, but yeah, it's been good to have that in my portfolio.

[00:33:45] That's for sure.

[00:33:46] Yeah.

[00:33:47] And I mean, the one thing I guess I'll say about, you know, the producers have done quite well in 2024.

[00:33:52] And like I said, typically, you know, they'll outperform the underlying commodity, but also, you know, if you do see a drawdown in gold, they will typically draw down much more than the price of gold.

[00:34:02] You know, gold's up 30 some, 32%.

[00:34:05] The producers are up, you know, close to 50.

[00:34:07] But I mean, if gold falls 20%, you're going to see producers, you know, there's very good chance they fall more than 20%.

[00:34:14] So that's something important to keep in mind as well.

[00:34:17] And it kind of works the same with oil as well.

[00:34:19] I mean, you typically see the stocks, they're more volatile than the underlying commodity.

[00:34:25] Well, even more so if you're looking at junior miners.

[00:34:28] Oh, yeah.

[00:34:28] Yeah.

[00:34:28] Then you get even more volatile.

[00:34:30] I mean, typically, you know, miners are referred as kind of leverage plays on gold.

[00:34:35] So, yeah, they should increase more when gold is going up than gold and vice versa, decline more when it's going down.

[00:34:41] But again, I think we have to be a bit careful in this environment just because, you know, a lot of people were saying, oh, like if prices keep going up of gold, they're just like kind of increasing their margins, making more money.

[00:34:53] But the reality is a lot of them have seen their costs go up to not as quickly, but it has put some pressure, I think, on these companies.

[00:35:02] And, you know, from a personal perspective, I mean, I've talked about it before.

[00:35:06] That's why I like owning Franco Nevada, which is one of the top streamers in the field because you remove most of those costs.

[00:35:13] So that's what I like.

[00:35:16] Like, I mean, they end up making a whole lot of bets and then some work, some don't work out, but it's a very solid business model and, you know, no debt.

[00:35:25] So you got to love that.

[00:35:27] Exactly.

[00:35:27] And I mean, no, you know, no exposure to equipment costs, fuel costs like, you know, it's it's a much more stable end of the business.

[00:35:37] You know, probably less reward, I guess, in a really big, you know, gold bull market, but probably one that's going to be not as volatile to the downside if we see it.

[00:35:47] No, exactly.

[00:35:49] So now we'll move on.

[00:35:51] You were, you know, referencing the TSX and the TSX.

[00:35:54] I mean, it has performed very well so far this year, especially if we start comparing it with the S&P 500.

[00:36:01] It has I wouldn't say it depends what benchmark you're using, right?

[00:36:06] Or if you're using an ETF, it is really dependent on that.

[00:36:10] So I'm just going to share my screen here so you can see when you compare XIU, which is the TSX 60 ETF.

[00:36:18] So the 60 largest stocks in the TSX.

[00:36:21] You compare it with VFV from Vanguard.

[00:36:25] That's S&P 500.

[00:36:27] Listen, Canadian dollars, but not hedge.

[00:36:30] Then you can compare it to ZUE, which is a hedge, Canadian hedge BMO S&P 500 ETF or the SPY, which is the US listed, the SPDR S&P 500.

[00:36:43] So probably the most famous S&P 500 ETF, I would say.

[00:36:47] So the returns kind of vary because obviously the reason it varies is because of currency.

[00:36:53] So the SPY, you're looking at it just based on, you know, kind of, you know, with the local currency lens and that's it.

[00:37:00] If you're doing the BMO hedge, then it's hedge for the Canadian dollar.

[00:37:06] VFV, of course, it's in Canadian dollars, but it's not hedge.

[00:37:09] It has benefited a whole lot from a strong US dollar.

[00:37:13] So in terms of return, VFV has crushed it.

[00:37:16] It's almost 38% year to date total returns.

[00:37:19] You have the SPY, so the one just local currency in the US, 29% year to date.

[00:37:26] And then you have XIU at 24.21% just in front of the hedge version from BMO.

[00:37:33] So it's still pretty impressive that it's on par almost with the hedge S&P 500 and slightly below the SPY.

[00:37:43] So I'm still, you know, pretty impressed of the performance from the TSX.

[00:37:48] I would not have expected that at the beginning of the year that it would have done so well,

[00:37:54] especially considering that if you start looking here at the MAG-7, it's been quite the year for the MAG-7.

[00:38:03] Yeah.

[00:38:03] And I think that's been another story this year is how well these companies have performed.

[00:38:07] Yeah, I mean, and if you think of like Energy's had, I wouldn't say it's had a bad year, but it hasn't had a good year.

[00:38:14] I mean, if you look to XEG, which would be the, effectively it's iShares Energy ETF that owns like the major players here in Canada.

[00:38:22] It's only up around 14% on the year because Energy's generally struggled right now.

[00:38:27] I think if that, you know, wasn't having such a bad year, I think you'd see the TSX outperforming the S&P 500 probably because Energy makes up obviously a huge portion of our index.

[00:38:40] But I mean, for the most part, the TSX is, you know, most of the industries are actually, you know, firing on all cylinders,

[00:38:48] especially like if you look to XIU, like the TSX 60 ETF, we got, you know, even a bit of tech exposure in that regard in terms of, you know, Shopify and Constellation doing so well this year.

[00:39:00] Obviously, they'd make up a bigger portion of the 60 than they would the entire index.

[00:39:04] But yeah, it's been a pretty good year.

[00:39:06] Obviously, you know, it's still lagging the S&P 500, but I mean, definitely not some segments.

[00:39:11] I mean, materials, financials, even industrials, they're keeping up quite well.

[00:39:16] Yeah, exactly.

[00:39:18] Well, that's what I pulled here on FinShot.io.

[00:39:20] So for people on JointTCI, so you'll see.

[00:39:23] So the top performer here, 42% XIT.

[00:39:27] So the, well, the Shopify technology.

[00:39:30] Yeah, Shopify and Constellation ETF.

[00:39:33] They have that one, the top performer.

[00:39:35] Financials at number two at 32%.

[00:39:38] You have after that, the materials at around 30%.

[00:39:42] You have following that and the industrial, 22%.

[00:39:48] And I took some ETFs to try and get the performance turtle returns.

[00:39:52] So it won't be perfect because the ZIN, which is the BMO equal weight industrial, it is equal weight.

[00:39:59] The other ones are market weight, market cap weighted.

[00:40:02] But still, I think it gives a good idea.

[00:40:04] Yeah, exactly.

[00:40:05] And then you have XUT, which I'm having a little bit of issues with my utilities.

[00:40:12] That has done still pretty well at around 16%.

[00:40:16] And then like you said, just shy of 15%, we have the energy.

[00:40:20] So it's been, I didn't add all the sectors just because a lot of sectors like real estate,

[00:40:25] it's less than 3% of the S&PTSX.

[00:40:28] So I don't think it's going to, you know, unless it's doubling for a year,

[00:40:34] it's not going to have a major impact just because it's such a small weighting.

[00:40:38] And then if you start looking, like I was saying, at the Mag 7,

[00:40:42] it's even more impressive to have the S&PTSX do this well.

[00:40:45] Because then if you start looking at the Mag 7, you have NVIDIA that, of course, crushed it 177%.

[00:40:52] It has continued.

[00:40:54] I mean, it has been more like sideways, I would say, in the fall.

[00:40:59] Yeah.

[00:40:59] So since the start of the fall, it's been like a little bit more sideways,

[00:41:02] but nonetheless, 177%.

[00:41:05] You have Meta here, that's the number two, 79%.

[00:41:09] You have Tesla at 72%, probably big thanks to, you know,

[00:41:14] Elon joining the Donald Trump team because it's been on the terror since the election.

[00:41:20] Amazon, 51%.

[00:41:22] You have Google, 39%.

[00:41:25] Kind of surprising considering that I think they could see some major disruptions when it comes to search.

[00:41:32] But, you know, still really good year for the Mag 7 here.

[00:41:35] And then rounding up the 7 Apple, which baffles me because they're not growing, they're stalling.

[00:41:41] But, you know, whatever, people are plowing their money in there.

[00:41:44] That's their own prerogative.

[00:41:46] And then you're finishing off with Microsoft, which I did not expect that Microsoft was the worst performing at 21%, which is interesting.

[00:41:55] So Microsoft underperformed by about like 9% index.

[00:41:59] Yeah, I know.

[00:41:59] And it's almost like half the returns of, nearly half the returns of Google.

[00:42:03] I mean, Google definitely does have probably the most headwinds in terms of, you know, the potential disruption.

[00:42:11] And also the DOJ situation where they might force them to sell Chrome.

[00:42:17] I think.

[00:42:18] Yeah.

[00:42:18] That would ultimately.

[00:42:20] Which is very weird, but.

[00:42:21] They collect so much data from Chrome.

[00:42:24] I guess so.

[00:42:25] Yeah, it's like I could see it being an issue.

[00:42:27] I could also see it being dragged through the courts for years and years and years.

[00:42:32] I mean, obviously, they're going to try to avoid that.

[00:42:34] But, yeah, it's, I mean, when you look at the returns of those top ones who make up, you know, the largest chunk of the S&P 500, I think, in history.

[00:42:43] They're driving a lot of the returns and the TSX is, for the most part, keeping up.

[00:42:48] I mean, I would actually imagine there's a possibility that I haven't looked this up, but, you know, on a risk adjusted basis, the TSX is probably offering more attractive returns than the S&P 500 this year.

[00:42:59] Again, that's just me guessing.

[00:43:01] But, you know, considering the low volatility stocks we got here, it's definitely a possibility.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:08] I mean, I wouldn't be surprised.

[00:43:10] I haven't looked at the PE recently, but I think valuations are more attractive in Canada in general.

[00:43:16] Just a lot of money flowing into the U.S.

[00:43:18] So for the S&P 500, obviously, MAG 7, a big reason for that.

[00:43:23] Those returns for people looking, you'll see communication services and technology are 40% and 24% respectively.

[00:43:31] I bucket them in the same category because if you start looking here at communication services, you start seeing names like Netflix, Meta, Alphabet.

[00:43:43] So there's a lot of, you know, these are just categories that they put them in.

[00:43:47] So keep that in mind.

[00:43:48] Sectors, I think it's debatable.

[00:43:49] So I just put those kind of in the same bucket personally.

[00:43:52] Some companies are, I think, associated more with communication services, but the big ones, there are some big ones in there.

[00:43:59] But then looking after that, it really comes down to financials.

[00:44:03] Again, very similar returns to the Canadian financials at 32%.

[00:44:07] And then consumer discretionary, surprisingly, at 31%.

[00:44:11] So this one is surprising me that it's doing better than consumer staple at like 14% considering everything.

[00:44:20] But those were the most, I would say, the best performing sectors that I get to round it up here.

[00:44:27] You have utilities at 23, 22.5, 23 here and industrials.

[00:44:33] And these are not total returns.

[00:44:35] So they're probably slightly higher in that.

[00:44:37] But I think the one thing we can finish on for the S&P 500 is there is no red.

[00:44:44] Yeah.

[00:44:44] All the sectors are in the green.

[00:44:47] So that kind of comes to what we were saying earlier is I really had to try hard this year to lose money.

[00:44:53] Yeah.

[00:44:53] And I'm actually surprised that healthcare is in the green.

[00:44:56] I mean, it's bordering on red.

[00:44:58] Yeah, it's bordering.

[00:44:59] But like a lot of healthcare stocks have taken a beating this year.

[00:45:04] Well, since the election, right, with RFK going to be leading that department.

[00:45:10] I can't remember exactly what his role will be.

[00:45:12] But he's been pretty critical of the pharmaceutical companies in the U.S.

[00:45:19] So we'll have to see.

[00:45:20] But I think that has been putting, especially in the last, since the election, has been putting some pressure on there.

[00:45:26] Do you want to, we'll transition here for, you know, a lot of small and medium cap acquisitions in Canada.

[00:45:33] So do you want to go over that?

[00:45:34] Yeah.

[00:45:34] So it was a pretty big year for, again, like acquisition activity on the TSX.

[00:45:40] I mean, especially when we look to the small and mid caps.

[00:45:42] I mean, this isn't something you would historically see.

[00:45:46] And for the most part, like a lot of the companies, they weren't acquired by other public companies.

[00:45:51] I'll go over a few, but they were acquired by, you know, venture capital firms.

[00:45:55] Some of them, I believe actually most of them U.S.-based.

[00:45:59] So the first one to kick off the year.

[00:46:00] More like private equity.

[00:46:01] Sorry, private equity.

[00:46:02] Yeah.

[00:46:02] Yeah.

[00:46:03] Yeah.

[00:46:03] I'm like venture.

[00:46:04] I'm not sure if they're buying Parklawn, but okay.

[00:46:07] Private equity.

[00:46:08] Yeah.

[00:46:08] So the first one to kick off the summer would probably be, you know, Parklawn, which is a funeral home company.

[00:46:16] It's one that I owned.

[00:46:17] So they got taken private at $26.50 a share.

[00:46:20] So that was a 62% premium to its share price prior to the announcement.

[00:46:25] And I do remember thinking when it happened that it was still too cheap.

[00:46:28] Parklawn was a small cap that had struggled a bit as it utilized, you know, a ton of his business was funded through revolving lines of credit to buy new funeral homes.

[00:46:38] So obviously when interest rates went from zero to, you know, the highest we've seen in a very, very long time, the bottom line was hit pretty hard, but they got scooped up for, you know, a pretty decent premium.

[00:46:50] The next one we would have seen would have been Nuve, which is a popular Canadian payment processor that went public during the pandemic.

[00:46:57] It was taken private as well in a $6.3 billion deal.

[00:47:01] So Nuve had really struggled in a post-pandemic environment, but the company was still generating, you know, $250, $300 million in free cash flow a year.

[00:47:10] So, I mean, it's really not a terrible price.

[00:47:12] And I'm not surprised that someone came in while valuations were a bit discounted and scooped this one up.

[00:47:19] I believe that was Ryan.

[00:47:20] Was it Ryan Reynolds that was huge in Nuve?

[00:47:23] Yeah.

[00:47:23] Yeah, I was going to say, get Ryan Reynolds to pump the stock a little bit and just sell it to private equity.

[00:47:29] Yeah, he had a big ownership in that too.

[00:47:32] And yeah, I think he's actually sticking with the company, even though they're private.

[00:47:38] I think he's like hanging around.

[00:47:39] Oh, yeah?

[00:47:39] I believe so.

[00:47:41] I can't guarantee.

[00:47:42] I think he's going to be okay.

[00:47:43] Yeah, he's going to do all right.

[00:47:44] I think, yeah.

[00:47:45] He's got a lot of hair, some good looks, you know.

[00:47:48] So, it's hard to not be jealous, but keep going.

[00:47:52] So, the next one would have been Heru DevTech.

[00:47:55] I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right.

[00:47:58] Heru DevTech.

[00:47:59] Yeah.

[00:47:59] So, they were, again, taken private by Platinum Equity Advisors for around $1.35 billion.

[00:48:06] So, they were a small cap Canadian stock that focused on creating landing gear for airplanes,

[00:48:11] both commercial, like passenger and military.

[00:48:14] So, those who actually bought the stock at the start of the year realized about 109% gains

[00:48:20] as it not only had a pretty strong 2024, but it was scooped up for, it was around a

[00:48:26] 27% premium to its trading price the day before the announcement.

[00:48:29] And then the, you know, out of the private equity deals, we can look to, you know, kind

[00:48:33] of the public to public deals.

[00:48:35] Sleep Country would have been the, one of the major ones.

[00:48:38] They were acquired by Fairfax Financial Holdings back in July.

[00:48:41] That was for a 28% premium to its current share price.

[00:48:45] Fairfax is often called Canada's Berkshire.

[00:48:47] It runs a very similar business.

[00:48:49] It's an insurance company.

[00:48:50] It uses, you know, some of its float to kind of buy, you know, deals like this.

[00:48:56] The next one probably...

[00:48:58] We actually, so we're, as you know, right, we're moving.

[00:49:01] We bought a home and we'll be a new home.

[00:49:04] And we'll be moving to the new place in about, like, at the end of January and looking for

[00:49:10] a new bed because we've had a harvest for, like, five years and I have back problems.

[00:49:13] So, you know, that's pretty important.

[00:49:15] We went to Sleep Country Canada.

[00:49:18] Stayed there for two minutes.

[00:49:20] I mean, the prices are just insane.

[00:49:22] Oh, they're crazy.

[00:49:23] Oh, my God.

[00:49:24] Like, so we found a good, like, one to order online.

[00:49:28] Like, that had really good reviews and kind of medium firm because that's what I need

[00:49:32] for, like, 25%, 30% of the price.

[00:49:36] So, one of those online order ones.

[00:49:38] And it was, like, three, four, five grand for a bed, like, the showroom.

[00:49:41] And they were supposed to have, like, a Black Friday sale.

[00:49:45] And I don't know.

[00:49:47] They weren't, like, displaying it.

[00:49:48] They were seeing it online but not in store.

[00:49:51] So...

[00:49:51] They didn't give you anything?

[00:49:52] Anyways, that's...

[00:49:53] I mean, we just didn't see anything, like, on sale, really.

[00:49:57] So, we, like, went there and we're like, okay, well, I guess, yeah.

[00:50:00] And, yeah, the...

[00:50:03] Yeah.

[00:50:03] And the salesman, like, looked like he had partied or had...

[00:50:08] I don't know.

[00:50:09] He seemed like...

[00:50:10] Did not seem very clean and stuff.

[00:50:13] So, it was just a quick in and out.

[00:50:15] I'll just say that.

[00:50:15] Oh, I mean, when I went to buy furniture at the Brick, there was, like, six of them.

[00:50:19] They wouldn't leave me alone.

[00:50:20] Oh, yeah.

[00:50:20] They would not leave me alone.

[00:50:21] They never do.

[00:50:22] But, I mean, I've personally never been in Sleep Country.

[00:50:27] We bought a Casper, like, the ones that you buy in the box and you just open it up.

[00:50:32] Yeah.

[00:50:32] I mean, we've had that for...

[00:50:33] It's got to be eight years now.

[00:50:35] But, I mean...

[00:50:36] They're pretty good.

[00:50:36] Yeah.

[00:50:36] They're pretty good.

[00:50:37] Sleep Country is, like, they had...

[00:50:39] They were a pretty good company.

[00:50:40] I mean, they had...

[00:50:41] You know, I think it was near 20% return on equity.

[00:50:44] Double-digit returns on invested capital.

[00:50:46] I think they had close to 20% operating margins.

[00:50:49] Like, they were a pretty good company.

[00:50:51] Oh, I hope so.

[00:50:52] Selling mattresses for five million.

[00:50:53] I hope your mattresses...

[00:50:55] I remember looking into them in...

[00:50:57] I believe it was, like, in 2021.

[00:50:59] And I went to their investor relations page.

[00:51:01] And, like, it hadn't been updated since, like, 2018?

[00:51:05] 2019?

[00:51:05] Oh, okay.

[00:51:06] And I was like, this is kind of a warning sign for me.

[00:51:08] So, I never really looked any further.

[00:51:10] But, I mean, obviously...

[00:51:11] I can't remember the guy from Fairfax's name, but...

[00:51:15] Prem Watson?

[00:51:15] Yeah.

[00:51:16] Yeah, yeah.

[00:51:16] Obviously, he finds value.

[00:51:18] And, I mean, Fairfax has also done very, very well over the last while.

[00:51:23] After, you know, not doing so well for quite a bit.

[00:51:26] But, yeah, this was probably the second biggest one.

[00:51:30] And then the biggest one would no doubt be National Bank and Canadian Western.

[00:51:34] It came with the highest premium as well.

[00:51:36] So, the company acquired Canadian Western for approximately $5 billion.

[00:51:42] So, just prior to the acquisition, Canadian Western had a $2.35 billion market cap.

[00:51:48] So, you're looking at more than 100% premium.

[00:51:50] Technically, $2.35 billion is not a small cap, but I kind of throw it in there anyway.

[00:51:55] It's so close.

[00:51:56] National Bank's objective here, obviously, pretty easy to figure out.

[00:51:59] It plans to utilize the assets and institutions in Western Canada to kind of expand out of its major hub, which would be Quebec.

[00:52:06] The deal does have to go through regulatory hurdles, but I can't really imagine it doesn't get done.

[00:52:12] And then we had, you know, one...

[00:52:14] There was actually only...

[00:52:15] And this actually surprised me, considering the price of gold.

[00:52:17] There was really only one major move in 2024, which would be Osisko Mining was acquired by Goldfields Limited for around $2.2 billion.

[00:52:27] So, this was a 65% premium on top of Osisko's price.

[00:52:31] So, Goldfields is a U.S. listed company, but it's one that primarily invests in mines and reserves in international countries.

[00:52:38] I quickly looked at them.

[00:52:40] I don't think they had any Canadian exposure.

[00:52:42] So, this was a pretty interesting acquisition as Osisko is primarily a Canadian operator.

[00:52:47] It has a bit of operations in the U.S. as well.

[00:52:50] And yeah, again, I mean, I'm surprised there wasn't a lot more M&A activity.

[00:52:54] I mean, we've seen a lot in the oil and gas sector.

[00:52:56] But I mean, it might be to the point where it might be just valuation-based.

[00:53:00] You know, a lot of these gold miners have run up in price quite a bit, whereas, you know, a lot of oil producers were discounted over the last while.

[00:53:07] And that's why you've seen a lot of activity in that space.

[00:53:09] But the other quick one would have just been Lundin Mining, who is primarily a copper producer.

[00:53:14] They made a joint move to acquire Filo Corporation.

[00:53:17] They were a small cap company that primarily operates mines, mineral properties in South America.

[00:53:23] But yeah, a ton of...

[00:53:24] Yeah, I mean, I think there's been some deals, right?

[00:53:27] I know, I can't remember the company, but Franco Nevada, I know they got a royalty deal done with a large miner.

[00:53:35] They did that in the last quarter or two maximum.

[00:53:39] So there's definitely been some deal.

[00:53:41] But I guess, like other sectors, I think you end up getting into the, at least oil and gas.

[00:53:48] You're seeing M&A a bit more just because I think the well-capitalized, very profitable large players

[00:53:55] are seeing depressed prices.

[00:53:57] So they're kind of going in and buying those up, offering a premium.

[00:54:01] So it's hard for shareholders of the acquiring company to refuse.

[00:54:06] But even, but when you're looking at like Canadian Naturals resources, for example,

[00:54:11] if they're buying stakes, like even if they pay a premium in their view,

[00:54:15] it's usually because that even with a premium, it's quite undervalued.

[00:54:19] So that's what you're seeing.

[00:54:22] So I wouldn't be surprised if there's a pullback.

[00:54:24] We might see some more mergers and acquisition in that space too.

[00:54:28] Yeah.

[00:54:28] And I think that was the exact same thing that kind of happened with all these,

[00:54:31] you know, small and mid-cap companies.

[00:54:33] It's just, you know, valuations got cheap enough.

[00:54:36] I mean, in the case of Park Lawn, it's pretty hard for shareholders to shut down a 62% premium

[00:54:42] over and above what the price is trading at.

[00:54:44] Like, you never know if, you know, the company is going to recover, how high rates are going to,

[00:54:48] you know, how much rates are going to come down, which would have provided relief, obviously.

[00:54:52] But yeah, that's a big premium.

[00:54:54] And a lot of these companies I would feel were undervalued and kind of, you know,

[00:54:58] that's just kind of the time when they often get scooped up.

[00:55:01] Yeah.

[00:55:01] Yeah.

[00:55:01] Probably, hopefully Dax De Silva is not listening to this podcast because he's probably saying like,

[00:55:06] so why?

[00:55:07] Yeah.

[00:55:07] Nobody wants to buy Lightspeed.

[00:55:09] Why is it being interested?

[00:55:09] Exactly.

[00:55:10] No one wants Lightspeed.

[00:55:11] Yeah.

[00:55:12] Yeah.

[00:55:12] We'll have to see.

[00:55:13] I mean, I think if they become profitable or close enough to profitability where private

[00:55:19] equity fund would kind of come in and see that, look, we'll make some cut.

[00:55:24] If we buy this, we can make some cuts and then it'll become profitable.

[00:55:28] I think that would be the way to, you know, potentially sell it.

[00:55:32] But again, I think it has to be close to that for private equity to really have an interest

[00:55:37] in it.

[00:55:38] If they're not profitable or close to it, I think they're going to have to,

[00:55:42] do the hard, hard stuff before they get some attractive offers.

[00:55:47] Yeah.

[00:55:47] I mean, that was the one thing about all these companies is they were all profitable.

[00:55:51] They weren't like Lightspeed has really struggled over the last while.

[00:55:54] I mean, they're turning it around now.

[00:55:56] I still hold onto them.

[00:55:58] I was kind of hoping a big deal would come in when they, when they came out and said they

[00:56:01] were looking to be sold.

[00:56:02] But I mean, obviously nothing's out there.

[00:56:04] Looking is different.

[00:56:05] And yeah.

[00:56:06] And if you're not profitable, I'm sure they've probably had offers.

[00:56:09] They just weren't.

[00:56:10] They weren't good enough.

[00:56:11] They were willing to take.

[00:56:12] Yeah.

[00:56:12] Yeah.

[00:56:13] So I guess we'll finish here.

[00:56:14] I'd be remiss.

[00:56:15] And if I didn't talk about Bitcoin.

[00:56:18] Yeah.

[00:56:18] Because I think you can say it's the year of Bitcoin, because unless you've been living

[00:56:23] under a rock here, Bitcoin's returns have been nothing short of phenomenal.

[00:56:27] I mean, I did these notes a couple weeks ago, but the price of Bitcoin is not a couple weeks,

[00:56:33] maybe a week or so ago.

[00:56:34] And but the price of Bitcoin is pretty much when I did that.

[00:56:37] These notes.

[00:56:38] So it works pretty well.

[00:56:39] So it's around 145 percent up a year to date.

[00:56:43] And that is quite the turnaround.

[00:56:45] If you go back to 2021 and 22, Bitcoin had peaked around $67,000 USD.

[00:56:51] And when I'm talking about the prices here, I will refer to the USD price back in November

[00:56:55] of 2021.

[00:56:57] And the bottom in the fall of 2022 following the fall of FTX.

[00:57:01] Now, there was more than just FTX that put pressure on Bitcoin.

[00:57:05] So like other risk asset interest rates and reduced liquidity.

[00:57:09] So higher interest rate and reduced liquidity really had a negative impact on the price of

[00:57:13] Bitcoin.

[00:57:14] There was a collapse in the Terra Luna, which a lot of you don't need to.

[00:57:20] You know, if you're not familiar with the space, that's fine.

[00:57:22] But essentially, it was a algorithmic stable coin.

[00:57:27] That ended up de-pegging, meaning that instead of being worth $1 USD, ended up being worth

[00:57:32] less.

[00:57:33] And then there were a lot of crypto lending platforms that actually had exposure to this.

[00:57:38] So a lot of them went under.

[00:57:40] There was a lot of fraud that was uncovered.

[00:57:42] And eventually, it accelerated FTX's demise because they started trying to make up for losses to use customer funds to fund Alameda Research,

[00:57:54] which was the hedge fund that was also controlled by Sam Bankman Fried or SBF.

[00:58:00] So that kind of started in the spring, I would say, of 2022 and then culminated with the peak of the bear market.

[00:58:09] There would have been when FTX really collapsed in November of 22.

[00:58:13] Now, the collapse also led to increased government austerity.

[00:58:16] I would even say hostility, especially in the U.S., against the crypto space.

[00:58:23] So you had Elizabeth Warren.

[00:58:24] She had her anti-crypto army, which is kind of ironic whether you think about, you know, whatever you think about crypto and Bitcoin.

[00:58:32] The reality is she was teaming up with like the big banks like Jamie Dimon and all the U.S.

[00:58:39] big CEOs to kind of try and prove her points.

[00:58:42] And I'm like, yeah, these CEOs clearly, you know, are reluctant for, you know, cryptocurrencies to potentially disrupt them.

[00:58:50] Obviously, they'll say it's bad.

[00:58:52] So it was always kind of using those.

[00:58:54] Oh, it's only used by criminal.

[00:58:56] But then when you look at the data provided by the U.N., you see that trillions of dollars every year, it's estimated are laundered with, you know, traditional money.

[00:59:05] And traditional money is mostly USD.

[00:59:08] So it's just kind of funny.

[00:59:10] And I find it, you know, when they start, you know, using this fear, this FUD, it's just, yeah, it gets a bit old.

[00:59:18] But I mean, despite all of that, it has rebounded.

[00:59:22] And you didn't have to really search very hard at that time to find articles saying that Bitcoin was going to be either irrelevant or dead just in the few months following FTX collapse.

[00:59:32] I mean, I encourage people to actually Google that, look at articles of late 22, early 2023.

[00:59:38] And that didn't last for too long because in early 2023, we saw the collapse of Silicon Valley Bank and a couple of other banks as well.

[00:59:47] So that ended up spurring a bit of more interest in Bitcoin as insurance against the financial system.

[00:59:53] And Bitcoin was up at 39 percent in 2022.

[00:59:56] Now, fast forward to this year and end of 2023.

[01:00:01] So there was more and more rumors or kind of talk about a spot Bitcoin ETF being approved by the SEC, especially since they had lost in courts again, Grayscale, which had the Bitcoin trust.

[01:00:12] And Grayscale was looking to convert that trust to an ETF.

[01:00:16] And then towards the end of last year, you started hearing a lot of these ETF providers, including like a BlackRock, a Bitwise, Grayscale, just to name a few that were saying they were, you know, it looked like the SEC was speeding up the approval process and what they had to do in the background to get those launched.

[01:00:35] And then on January 11, 2024, spot Bitcoin ETFs launch.

[01:00:40] And really, it hasn't really much looked back since.

[01:00:44] There's been I mean, it's pretty phenomenal.

[01:00:47] So I will share this with our joint TCI viewers here and I'll explain what it is.

[01:00:53] But it's basically assets under management for Bitcoin ETFs since the launch.

[01:00:58] At the launch, there was, let's just say, roughly 28 billion in asset under management.

[01:01:03] Now, clearly, asset on management is a combination of additional flows, but also, you know, higher Bitcoin prices.

[01:01:09] And you fast forward to right now, you're looking here at the total asset under management at around 115 billion.

[01:01:19] It is. I think it's one of the most, if not the most successful launch in a year for a kind of asset class for an ETF in the US.

[01:01:29] I think it's almost it's getting pretty close.

[01:01:31] I don't have the exact number for like gold spot ETFs, but it's getting pretty close to the asset under management for that.

[01:01:38] So it's pretty phenomenal what happened on the Bitcoin spot Bitcoin ETF front.

[01:01:42] Yeah. I mean, especially you look at, you know, the assets under management, what would that be?

[01:01:47] Almost 300 percent increase, but gold or Bitcoin has only gone up 130 percent year to date.

[01:01:54] So, I mean.

[01:01:54] Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. It's I think more than that.

[01:01:58] Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. 300, 400.

[01:02:01] 400. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:02:03] Yeah. So, I mean, clearly, there's there's money flowing in and a lot of inflows.

[01:02:07] Yeah. Yeah. It's I mean, like you said, like back even in I bought I think I bought in late 2022.

[01:02:16] And I mean, I quickly realized how volatile it was.

[01:02:21] I think it what did it fall from 2022?

[01:02:24] I think I bought in like maybe mid 2022, but I was quickly down like 60 plus percent.

[01:02:29] Yeah. And I was like, oh, man, what have I done?

[01:02:32] But I mean, I kind of signed up for it like I understood it would be that volatile.

[01:02:37] And I mean, you didn't have to hop on.

[01:02:39] I find like X is one of the main areas where you can really judge the sentiment of crypto.

[01:02:45] I mean, once there's any, you know, 10 to 15 percent decline, you know, a lot of these financial X accounts will come out with like jokes about how it's, you know, store a value in quotations and stuff like that.

[01:02:57] But then they all they all tend to disappear when it's up, you know, 30 percent.

[01:03:02] Yeah. But I mean, it's it's an asset.

[01:03:04] You definitely have to be prepared to eat, you know, 50 percent and just, you know, not panic effectively.

[01:03:12] Exactly. Yeah. And that's that's what we've I mean, I've been pretty consistent on it.

[01:03:17] Look, I have pretty big allocation to Bitcoin.

[01:03:20] I won't lie. Like it's a pretty large portion of my portfolio.

[01:03:23] A lot of it is just because I've been in it for, you know, prior to the pandemic.

[01:03:28] Right. Like I started pretty early putting just dollar cost averaging and over time I haven't sold.

[01:03:33] So it's done pretty well for me.

[01:03:35] But I've seen those ups and downs.

[01:03:37] So I know what it is.

[01:03:39] And whoever is looking to start a position first, you know, do your homework, you know, read the white paper.

[01:03:46] There's some really good books out there.

[01:03:47] The Bitcoin layer, layered money, broken money, if you're looking more at understanding kind of the origins of money, how the, you know, historically money has worked.

[01:03:58] And yes, of course, there will be kind of a Bitcoin portion on those.

[01:04:01] But I think that's, you know, if you want to build conviction in the asset or at least understanding a bit more, I think that's where you should start.

[01:04:08] And then if you, you know, once you've done your research and your work, if you want to, you know, start a position in it, like I've always said is put an amount where you'd be comfortable with it going to zero.

[01:04:20] So are you comfortable with 2% or 5% of your portfolio going to zero?

[01:04:26] If it does, then, you know, if you're comfortable with that, then, you know, that's probably the right allocation for you.

[01:04:32] I can't say what it is for you.

[01:04:34] I think you have to make that own decision.

[01:04:36] But I think that's a good way to see it.

[01:04:38] That way, if it declines 50, 60, 70 percent, like I don't think it's going to zero.

[01:04:43] But if it does decline massively, which it's been known to do historically, then you won't panic because you're OK.

[01:04:51] It won't wreck whatever plan, whether it's your retirement or you're saving up for something else.

[01:04:56] It won't wreck that plan if you do it with that mindset and you won't panic sell.

[01:05:01] Because, yes, Bitcoin has been tremendous for my returns, but I also did not panic sell.

[01:05:06] So, you know, if I would have panicked sell, I don't think I would be in the same position right now.

[01:05:11] So I think that's yeah, that's usually how I see it.

[01:05:14] But yeah, for just to get back here in the year in review for Bitcoin, it kind of went up pretty quickly early in the year.

[01:05:21] And then I'd been trading sideways from a range from 50 to 70,000 up until the election of Trump.

[01:05:29] And essentially that's you know, it's a bit surprising that it was up until then because there was the Bitcoin halving that happened on April 19th.

[01:05:37] And even despite that, it's still continued trading within 50 and 70 thousand dollars, which just tells you the volatility because it's a pretty big range.

[01:05:47] But again, I'm saying it as if it's like, OK, it was just that.

[01:05:51] But it just goes to show the volatility.

[01:05:53] And for those not familiar, the halving means the reward giving to Bitcoin miners.

[01:05:57] So it's the reward they get to solve a complex mathematical puzzle or problem.

[01:06:02] And it's a big part of what makes Bitcoin secure and also brings new Bitcoin into circulation until the maximum of 21 million is reached.

[01:06:10] And then Trump got elected and Bitcoin has been on a tear ever since.

[01:06:14] So it's been it's essentially up close to 45 percent since he's been elected as the new president.

[01:06:21] Obviously, hasn't taken that to office yet.

[01:06:24] But Trump has been pretty openly supportive.

[01:06:27] He's changed his stance on it for this campaign.

[01:06:29] He's basically done a 180 being supportive.

[01:06:33] Of course, Trump being Trump, still very bullish on the US dollar as well.

[01:06:38] But he did, you know, change his stance.

[01:06:41] His family has also been very bullish on it.

[01:06:44] So it's it's definitely helped.

[01:06:46] I think the price, I think I would be, you know, lying if I didn't think, you know, the Trump election didn't help here.

[01:06:53] Personally, I didn't think it really matter who got elected in the long run.

[01:06:56] I think Bitcoin will do well over 5, 10, 15 years just because the spending is unlikely to get into control despite the whole Doge department with Elon Musk and Vivek.

[01:07:09] So it's that's my view on it.

[01:07:12] Yes, it's a kind of short term appreciation.

[01:07:14] But I think long term, it doesn't really change anything.

[01:07:16] That's just my my view.

[01:07:18] And I guess the last thing I know it's easy to get into the price.

[01:07:23] Right.

[01:07:23] We all get excited.

[01:07:24] We see price number go up.

[01:07:25] But what's really interesting this year is we've started seeing this year and last year some pretty prominent face, prominent voices in the space.

[01:07:34] So I'm thinking here, Larry Fink, even Ray Dalio has been open to now like incorporating Bitcoin in a portfolio, a small percentage.

[01:07:43] And you're seeing more and more a lot of these critical voices that are now shifting to either fully embracing Bitcoin or, you know, being more open to the assets.

[01:07:54] So I think that's been a big shift that's been happening over the not just this year, but over the last couple of years.

[01:07:59] Yeah.

[01:08:00] Yeah.

[01:08:00] I mean, I would say myself included.

[01:08:02] I mean, I used to be a I used to be a huge skeptic of it.

[01:08:06] I mean, I I used to work with somebody who bought a bunch.

[01:08:10] Well, actually, he probably only bought like twenty thousand dollars worth in twenty seventeen and he still owns it.

[01:08:16] He's never sold it.

[01:08:18] And I mean, it's good for all.

[01:08:19] I don't know.

[01:08:20] I haven't talked to him recently, but I would imagine he's not working anymore.

[01:08:25] But yeah, it's like at the time I was well, twenty seventeen.

[01:08:30] So it would be twenty seventeen.

[01:08:32] It's probably like a five X because that would have been near the peak of that cycle.

[01:08:38] No, he he was like this would have been late twenty sixteen, early twenty seventeen.

[01:08:42] So I think.

[01:08:43] OK, so it's probably twelve hundred bucks.

[01:08:46] Yeah.

[01:08:46] Yeah.

[01:08:47] Yeah.

[01:08:48] Yeah.

[01:08:48] So it's probably up like ten X, I would say more than that, actually.

[01:08:51] Oh, just twelve hundred.

[01:08:52] Yeah.

[01:08:52] OK.

[01:08:53] A hundred X.

[01:08:53] OK.

[01:08:54] Well, yeah.

[01:08:55] Yeah.

[01:08:55] OK.

[01:08:56] He's.

[01:08:56] And I like at the time I was like, you are.

[01:08:59] I called him an idiot.

[01:09:01] I did.

[01:09:02] But now I mean, I was laughing.

[01:09:04] Oh, yeah.

[01:09:05] Oh, definitely.

[01:09:06] I heard from him for for a long time.

[01:09:08] I heard from him.

[01:09:09] And then eventually, you know, in twenty twenty one, I still don't understand it much at all.

[01:09:14] But I just own it because I think there's potentially more risk in not owning it.

[01:09:18] If people as I say, if people that are much smarter than me are right, I would rather own

[01:09:24] it than not own it.

[01:09:25] And again, like you said, it's you know, it's comfortable.

[01:09:27] I took four percent of my portfolio, which for me, I was completely comfortable with.

[01:09:32] That might be way too much for somebody else.

[01:09:34] It might be way too little for somebody else.

[01:09:36] But I mean, ultimately, yeah, that's your own decision to make.

[01:09:39] But it's had a it's had a heck of a year.

[01:09:42] Yeah, no, exactly.

[01:09:44] And look, I know for a lot of people, it's still hard to wrap their head around.

[01:09:47] Then that's fine.

[01:09:48] Right.

[01:09:48] Like at the end of the day, you invest for yourself.

[01:09:51] If you're not comfortable with putting money in that, don't put it.

[01:09:54] I think for me, it's just a asymmetrical bet, meaning that, you know, if you put one percent

[01:10:00] or two percent of your money, for example, the way I view it is the worst that can happen

[01:10:04] is you lose that one to two percent.

[01:10:06] But the upside is actually, you know, could be five, six, seven, 10 X, whatever it is.

[01:10:13] Right.

[01:10:13] Like I I think that's that to me is the clearest mathematical play.

[01:10:18] If you even don't fully understand it, but have a decent understanding, even if you're

[01:10:24] skeptical, I think that's the way I think mathematically that can make a whole lot of

[01:10:29] sense is, OK, you know, things can go negative.

[01:10:32] You know, you can't have like, you know, negative two percent like in terms of holding like

[01:10:37] it just goes to zero.

[01:10:38] Yeah.

[01:10:38] It can't go further than that.

[01:10:40] So I think it's just I think that's the way I see it.

[01:10:42] And at the end of the day, I think a lot of its values, people tend to look at it intrinsic

[01:10:47] value.

[01:10:47] And I had a question on joint TCI.

[01:10:49] And I think to me, the right way to look at it is the utility value behind it.

[01:10:54] And I think when you start understanding the utility of Bitcoin without going into too much

[01:11:00] detail, but just the fact that it's decentralized, not controlled by any one entity.

[01:11:04] It's also has a kind of fixed supply cap.

[01:11:08] You can make massive transaction like you can send, you know, 50 million worth of Bitcoin

[01:11:14] within like the transaction will be done and settle within 30 minutes.

[01:11:19] Like everything will be done.

[01:11:20] Try doing that with our traditional financial system.

[01:11:23] Good luck.

[01:11:24] You will take you more than 30 minutes.

[01:11:27] So there's a whole lot of utility around it.

[01:11:29] And I think that's the kind of the biggest case in my view for Bitcoin.

[01:11:33] But anything else?

[01:11:35] Or I think that kind of wraps it up.

[01:11:37] We've gone a little longer, but I think it's, you know, people will have time to listen to

[01:11:42] it during the holidays in between digesting, you know, turkey or whatever Christmas or holiday

[01:11:50] meal that you like to have.

[01:11:51] So you can take a little break, go for a walk outside, put the podcast on, take a long walk

[01:11:58] if you want, get, you know, get those potatoes down a little bit.

[01:12:02] Yeah, exactly.

[01:12:03] It was a pretty good episode.

[01:12:04] Happy holidays, everybody.

[01:12:05] I guess we'll see everyone in 2025.

[01:12:09] Yeah.

[01:12:10] Yeah.

[01:12:10] We'll have to get used to that one.

[01:12:12] Yeah.

[01:12:12] Yeah.

[01:12:12] It always takes me like, I don't know about you.

[01:12:14] It takes me like three months usually to get used to the new year roughly.

[01:12:18] I'm going to put 2024 in until March probably.

[01:12:22] Yeah.

[01:12:23] Pretty much.

[01:12:23] Same for me.

[01:12:24] So yeah.

[01:12:24] Thanks everyone for listening.

[01:12:25] If you haven't done so, you know, leave us a comment, a positive review, five star, whether

[01:12:31] it's on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, whichever platform you listen to.

[01:12:35] We really love the support.

[01:12:37] It also helps other people find us.

[01:12:39] And we will be back in the new year with some fresh episodes.

[01:12:43] So looking forward to what 2025 has in store for us.

[01:12:48] Thanks again.

[01:12:48] The Canadian Investor Podcast should not be construed as investment or financial advice.

[01:12:55] The hosts and guests featured may own securities or assets discussed on this podcast.

[01:13:01] Always do your own due diligence or consult with a financial professional before making

[01:13:06] any financial or investment decisions.