Simon’s 20 year investing learnings & Reddit SEO Juice

[00:00:00] This is the Canadian Investor where you take control of your own portfolio and gain the confidence you need to succeed in the markets

[00:00:10] Hosted by Braden Dennis and Simon Belanger

[00:00:14] The Canadian Investor podcast welcome into the show

[00:00:19] My name is Braden Dennis as always joined by the tenured

[00:00:23] Simon Belanger today we are going to go through the last 20 years of learnings

[00:00:30] From Simone. I think after last week's episode. I went through 10 years

[00:00:35] Simone's basically exactly 10 years older than me. So you do the math here

[00:00:39] He's got 20 year 16 lessons of the last 20 years and then I'm gonna talk later about

[00:00:45] Reddit search engine juice because their traffic from Google is exploding and

[00:00:51] I'm here to report some stats

[00:00:53] How you feeling? How was how was your write-up?

[00:00:56] I mean, I did did you go smell the fresh coffee at the shop or what?

[00:01:01] No, I did not in the end just because you know

[00:01:04] I've been fighting some back issues and I have a really good setup. I just when my daughter was sleeping

[00:01:10] I just got into it. It took me a couple hours got all the points in posted it on Twitter slash X and

[00:01:17] Like you said a lot of good feedback from people people just asking questions a lot of people resonating with some of the

[00:01:25] Learnings that I've done over that time period

[00:01:27] So it's just always fun to see that kind of feedback you got you get from people and I wouldn't say went viral

[00:01:32] But you know 20k impressions roughly. That's not bad. It's not bad

[00:01:37] Yeah, that's solid. I think mine got

[00:01:40] Somewhere near there and I've just had some content pieces especially with Finch yet that I just know we're gonna do really well

[00:01:46] Like I just have a feeling before I post it

[00:01:49] I like especially I'm working on it with the team on a content piece. I'm like you we just look around like this

[00:01:55] Is gonna go nuts like you kid there is a formula and you and I've talked about this before but you know

[00:02:02] Mr. Beast the youtuber right? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah

[00:02:04] He's the ultimate mid-wit meme because if you listen to his podcast that he goes on

[00:02:09] He always just says just make good content like there's no there's no hack

[00:02:13] It's just like

[00:02:15] How do you go viral? He's like I just make the best YouTube video in the world

[00:02:19] Like that's it a couple million bucks behind each one, but it's pretty impressive

[00:02:24] Yeah, I mean I agree like right when you bring value to people they'll come back

[00:02:29] They'll tell other you know friends and family about it and as long as you able to you know bring some good content

[00:02:36] Bring value to people. I think you'll end up doing well in the kind of content producing space

[00:02:41] Obviously getting started is the toughest part

[00:02:45] But once you get that traction definitely agree with mr. Beast there

[00:02:48] But again, you know when you have a couple million budget

[00:02:51] You're probably gonna do a bit better than the guy or the girl who has you know a hundred dollars to produce a video and that's it

[00:02:59] He has a video with like over a hundred million views that still gets views

[00:03:03] That he just counts to a hundred thousand I think it is

[00:03:07] That's just there. Yeah, he just sits there on the camera on this like low budget

[00:03:13] Webcam and he just counts to a hundred thousand

[00:03:17] Like let me look it up counts to a hundred. Yeah, I guess I you know, yeah, it's 20. It's 23 hours

[00:03:26] The video on YouTube he posted it seven years ago. It's got over 30 million views good for him

[00:03:32] So

[00:03:34] If you don't have a lot of money already can just be absolutely insane like this guy one of the two

[00:03:39] Alright, so without further delay you have your long segment

[00:03:45] But before that I wanted to bring up a quick statistic

[00:03:50] About how ridiculous the TSX venture has gotten

[00:03:53] So many of you guys will know the TMX group here in Canada

[00:03:57] Which is a public listed company owns and operates the Toronto Stock Exchange the TSX and the Toronto Stock Exchange venture the TSX venture exchange and

[00:04:06] The TSX venture has a lot of smaller companies

[00:04:11] Constellation software many of you guys have heard of has spun out two companies on there

[00:04:16] They used to be operating groups separately, you know owned and managed but under the constellation umbrella

[00:04:22] They publicly listed on the venture over the last couple years

[00:04:26] Topicus

[00:04:28] Com and Luma in group they

[00:04:31] combined

[00:04:32] Which are the two largest?

[00:04:34] by market cap on the exchange are now

[00:04:38] 28.6% of

[00:04:41] The exchange by market cap so everything else all the other small companies you add them up together

[00:04:47] And you're gonna get around 71 point four percent of the exchange

[00:04:50] I would not be shocked if

[00:04:53] This if this is able to continue that half of the exchange is the spin-cos

[00:04:59] Because they're gonna spin off more and they're gonna grow so I wouldn't be shocked if half the exchange is just Mark Leonard's umbrella

[00:05:07] Yeah, and I think you if it's allowed to continue

[00:05:11] I think is the right way to put it because

[00:05:13] Obviously, I'm not sure of the TMX at some point will kind of put rules in place

[00:05:18] I'm sure if they do they would give them notice but

[00:05:21] Put rules in place saying okay, like if you're a company that has a market cap

[00:05:25] You know maybe the trailing

[00:05:28] 26 weeks or trailing 52 weeks that was above a certain threshold

[00:05:32] You have to list on the Toronto Stock Exchange. They clearly don't care

[00:05:38] Constellation because I think they like being a bit more, you know under the radar as jet like in

[00:05:45] General but and also paying less fees

[00:05:47] I think a lot of companies want to go on the Toronto Stock Exchange because it provides them more exposure and

[00:05:54] Easier to finance kind of secondary offerings if they do need to issue stocks in the future

[00:06:00] But I don't think that's a concern for a company like Constellation. That's right. So

[00:06:06] One of the two I think is gonna happen the exchange is gonna be mostly

[00:06:11] CSU spin-cos or they're gonna

[00:06:14] Bring a new rule that like okay, you got to go list on the on the TSX proper on the big boy exchange

[00:06:20] Yeah, the topic is a you know a pretty large cap company all relatively for the Canadian market

[00:06:27] No, exactly and it's over 10 billion CAD in market cap

[00:06:34] Oh that does not equate with what I normally think about the venture exchange because usually

[00:06:40] You know, there's a lot of fishy companies there and then a lot of companies that are just getting started

[00:06:46] Which I think is the whole point of having the venture exchange is to allow companies to be

[00:06:52] publicly traded maybe at a more affordable cost and

[00:06:56] Maybe eventually make the leap to the the big brother exchange if you like it says it in the name

[00:07:02] It's supposed to be like venture capital style investing with public companies. Yeah

[00:07:07] Topic is is not that it is already 10 billion in market cap. Yeah, and the last thing I want to add here

[00:07:13] I know you mentioned that you know TSX venture

[00:07:16] There's a TSX but a lot of people don't know that the TMX also owns the Montreal exchange

[00:07:23] They purchased it in 2007. So if you start investing

[00:07:27] In the last couple years, you're probably not super familiar

[00:07:30] But it's essentially a derivative exchange

[00:07:32] So there's a lot of options if you're buying on like Canadian options

[00:07:35] They'll be coming out of the Montreal exchange for those familiar with the CME

[00:07:40] So the Chicago mercantile exchange in the u-wetch which is massive for derivatives

[00:07:45] I guess Montreal the Montreal exchange is kind of the equivalent in Canada

[00:07:49] And I think it's actually the oldest stock exchange in Canada. I think it was established before the TSX. Yeah

[00:07:58] The first exchange in Canada began in

[00:08:02] 1832 as an informal exchange at the exchange coffee house in Montreal that ended up

[00:08:09] becoming the Montreal stock exchange and then I don't think they ended up merging with the TSX

[00:08:17] Until the early 90s

[00:08:20] It's okay. It says here that the acquisition was in 2007. Yeah, yeah exactly that I knew

[00:08:27] 2008 it closed. Yeah, I think they work closely with the TSX before that

[00:08:32] I think I mean at the end of the day

[00:08:34] I think it made a whole lot of sense that they just be one but I

[00:08:38] Just figure it I mentioned that because I think a lot of people are not aware that there's an actual like stock exchange in Montreal

[00:08:46] It's roots go back to

[00:08:49] 1832

[00:08:51] That is amazing. Okay, very cool

[00:08:55] All right, so now hit us 16 lessons in 20 years

[00:08:59] Yeah, and by all means right just chime in because there's quite a few of them

[00:09:03] I think some kind of resonate with what you were saying

[00:09:06] But I think also it shows that we have kind of slightly different approach and you know

[00:09:11] How we're thinking is evolve over time even though we agree on a lot of stuff

[00:09:15] I mean we've always said, you know investing is also personal

[00:09:18] So, you know our approach may not be the right one for you

[00:09:22] And the same thing for Braden and I yeah, it's like personal finance

[00:09:25] It's like advice on personal finance to me is an oxymoron because it's called personal finance

[00:09:32] Yeah, exactly and I think you know when you're investing it's the same thing

[00:09:36] So the first one investing in individual companies is time-consuming

[00:09:40] So again if you've been listening to the podcast for a while

[00:09:42] You've probably heard me saying that what I've done over the years

[00:09:46] I used to have like in the 20s in terms of individual stock holdings

[00:09:50] Even as high as 30 at some point and I went from having that to having 11 individual stocks currently

[00:09:57] And my ideal kind of range would be 10 to 15

[00:10:02] I would say and that's just what works best for me because I

[00:10:07] Have a busy life. I have a young daughter. I have a wife

[00:10:10] You know, I have a part-time job a regular job doing the podcast

[00:10:14] Something's got to give right I realized that if I had too many stocks, I just lose track

[00:10:20] I'm not able to keep up with all of them and at that point. Why am I?

[00:10:25] Kind of doing that. Why am I not just buying the index?

[00:10:28] You know have like oh for a lot of people

[00:10:31] I've seen you know even people saying they have more than 50 stocks in their portfolio

[00:10:35] And I do wonder when people have full-time jobs and they manage such a big portfolio

[00:10:41] Like Britain, how do you keep up with those like 50 plus companies?

[00:10:45] Like I just feel like you know some just fall off the side

[00:10:49] And they kind of lose track on them and at that point

[00:10:53] I mean why do you have that many stocks?

[00:10:55] Why not have a bit more of a kind of hybrid approach like I do so that's that's what works for me

[00:11:01] But I've seen people with like 50 plus even a hundred stocks and at that point like why are you just not buying the index?

[00:11:08] Think I said to you a few episodes Simone if you see me have 50 plus stocks in my portfolio

[00:11:14] You get your butt down here to Toronto and we you know by force

[00:11:21] Move my entire portfolio to an S&P 500 and never look at it again. No exactly and I think that's

[00:11:28] You know that's a great way to put it

[00:11:29] So now the next one here on the list is my answer to the picking stock versus index investing debate

[00:11:37] Do both so that's for me and that works best for me

[00:11:40] I have a substantial amount of my portfolio in index fund and I just supplement that with individual stocks

[00:11:46] So the hybrid approach really allows me to I can still have the fun of picking stocks

[00:11:52] But I also get the diversification of index funds and you know, I just see a lot of people

[00:11:57] Debating whether you should do one or the other. I mean there's nothing wrong with doing a hybrid approach as well

[00:12:02] That is a very classic Brad Dennis my father quote

[00:12:06] Don't do one do both

[00:12:08] There you go

[00:12:09] He's been banging the drum on he's been banging the drum on that one since you know my entire life

[00:12:15] So there you want to do both number three

[00:12:18] Diversifying is more than just the first of buying your equity holdings and that has evolved over time for me

[00:12:25] So if you scroll fin twit, you'll see a lot of people who only invest in equities

[00:12:28] And when I say equities if you're new I'm meeting like stocks here or even certain types of equities like dividend stocks

[00:12:36] Over the years I went from being almost

[00:12:38] exclusively into equities to having

[00:12:41] diversification in other asset classes

[00:12:43] My current portfolio is a mix of equities bitcoins short-term Treasury bills also known

[00:12:48] You know, you can see that more as cash and

[00:12:51] Gold and a little bit of Ethereum that I bought years ago. Yes. I said gold

[00:12:55] I did buy some gold recently

[00:12:57] So that is new to my portfolio on the gold the main reason I own gold is for insurance

[00:13:02] So unless you've been living under a rock, you know government spending across the world has gone out of control

[00:13:09] Including Canada, but you know down south as well

[00:13:11] And if we can learn anything from history or fiat currencies, which is like the Canadian dollar or the US dollar

[00:13:18] There is a high probability of leading to devaluation of our currency over the next, you know

[00:13:25] medium to long term I would say more long term but gradual devaluation and the reason I own gold is

[00:13:32] essentially to have some insurance against that a kind of hard money that can't be manipulated by governments and central banks

[00:13:40] Obviously a lot of bitcoiners will say the same kind of arguments for Bitcoin

[00:13:44] I do own both here, but I also wanted to diversify with some gold

[00:13:49] Let me tell you about a public-attracted company that has perfect inflation

[00:13:56] Built into it perfect

[00:13:58] Inflation resistance built into it. In fact, you probably have one in your pocket at all times

[00:14:05] That is okay. Yeah

[00:14:07] What about mastercard?

[00:14:09] Mastercard that'll work too. Hey, that'll work too. Those are my

[00:14:15] insurance

[00:14:17] Chump insurance and they just happen to be the best businesses ever so

[00:14:21] In multiple ways to play the game

[00:14:23] Yeah, exactly and I'm not gonna be putting like a huge portion of you know, gold in my portfolio

[00:14:28] But uh, it's something I'm comfortable with. I've been thinking about for a long time and I recently added it

[00:14:34] Number four, I think you had a point here that was similar to that

[00:14:37] So I just wrote it's okay to be concentrated

[00:14:40] It might seem contra to contradicting my previous point

[00:14:44] but

[00:14:45] The way I see it is I have positions that have grown significantly over the years which I don't intend on trimming

[00:14:51] It's a risk I'm comfortable with as long as it passes the sleep test

[00:14:55] Which brings me to my next point and I'm sure you'll probably add something after this one

[00:15:00] Number five the sleep test. So if I find myself thinking or stressing about a position

[00:15:05] It's a sign that I need to either trim or sell the position

[00:15:08] So if I'm losing sleep overnight

[00:15:10] Probably should be trimming or selling that position

[00:15:14] Life is too short to be stressed about my investments. I think

[00:15:18] the positions

[00:15:20] That you it's okay to be concentrated and how that relates this sleep test

[00:15:25] is

[00:15:26] It feels really good to own

[00:15:29] high conviction high quality names in size

[00:15:33] That pass this test

[00:15:36] Even when they get to huge allocations like that's how you know, you have a really

[00:15:40] A lot of conviction in the name and

[00:15:44] Some of the best investors of all time have owned just a handful of names. I mean

[00:15:51] Speaking of the sleep test and concentration Nick sleep is one of the best investors

[00:15:57] And he's basically owned Costco Berkshire and Amazon for the last 20 years

[00:16:01] In size

[00:16:03] Let me just tell you that's done pretty well. Yeah

[00:16:06] But I think the important point you said is conviction right because if you're really concentrated and you don't have conviction

[00:16:13] That can be a recipe for disaster

[00:16:16] Yeah, because during that time there's even

[00:16:19] Those companies look fantastic today. They've all they've had their rough rough patches up and down

[00:16:24] They've had narratives

[00:16:25] Even for something like Berkshire, you know, how many times is they've said, you know, Buffett doesn't still have it over the last 20 years

[00:16:32] I was outpaced

[00:16:34] So many times so even for names that like everything looks great right now

[00:16:39] They've all had a lot of volatility and a lot of points where it's had to test your conviction

[00:16:44] No, exactly. So number seven recency bias is dangerous. So too many people look at the market

[00:16:51] Essentially and what it's done recently and then make investment decision based on this

[00:16:56] I try to think about things in probabilities of what could happen in the future

[00:17:01] So part of those probability will reflect what has happened recently and another part will take into account other potential outcomes

[00:17:09] And an example of this in the last 30 years where interest rates were steadily going down

[00:17:14] Globalization was increasing which kept pushing the cost of a lot of goods lower

[00:17:19] We also lived in a world where the u.s. Was the dominant force. It's also our neighbor, obviously

[00:17:25] It's our neighbor down south. So how does that impact investing going forward?

[00:17:30] I don't know for sure

[00:17:31] But i'll try to build my portfolio to be as resilient as possible in a wide range of outcomes

[00:17:36] And it's just acknowledging that yes the past is you know, you can learn a whole lot from the past

[00:17:42] That's really important

[00:17:43] But I think it's also important to acknowledge that

[00:17:45] The future may look very different than the past and trying to build my portfolio with taking both of these into account

[00:17:53] What is the

[00:17:54] The worst words a financial wants to find financial advisor wants to hear what have you done for me lately?

[00:18:01] right like

[00:18:02] There's all that recency bias

[00:18:05] It is

[00:18:07] So so critical to zoom out just generally as an investor if you can zoom out

[00:18:14] When it comes to volatility

[00:18:16] See the big picture with businesses

[00:18:19] The narratives that happen around certain companies. I think it serves people pretty well

[00:18:24] Yeah, yeah and now number eight

[00:18:27] So the bear case is as important as a bull case for an investment

[00:18:31] So it's easy to only look at the bull thesis when you invest in a in a company and you know

[00:18:36] I start while in a company whether it's another type of investment as well

[00:18:40] It's also very easy and you see this all the time to get into that echo chamber of like-minded investors

[00:18:47] and it does takes um

[00:18:50] You have to be able to take a step back

[00:18:53] And that's what I've done over the years is I've learned that it's really important to know the bear case

[00:18:58] And not to outright dismiss views that go against my own

[00:19:02] I think that's really important and completely dismissing it. I think um, we'll end up

[00:19:09] Not being a good thing over the long run for like the investment portfolio as a whole and unfortunately

[00:19:15] I you see this all the time right if you look on

[00:19:19] On fin twit. I mean you tend to get like I'll just say you know whether it's

[00:19:25] dividend

[00:19:27] Investor only that look at dividend stocks or you know people that are

[00:19:32] Bitcoin maximal is that only have all of their assets in bitcoin

[00:19:36] I think it's important to just look at other point of views whether you end up agreeing with them or not

[00:19:41] That's beside the case, but at least trying to look at them with a critical lens

[00:19:47] And uh, you know being open to them. I think that's really important to be a good investor

[00:19:52] If you don't understand the bear case, you don't understand the bull case because no

[00:19:57] individual company does not carry risk

[00:20:01] That the laws of capitalism are too strong

[00:20:04] For there to be no risk in any business a lot of businesses

[00:20:08] Are a lot safer or they don't have their you know future more secure or more easily

[00:20:14] You know higher probability that they're going to be around in the next 10 years

[00:20:17] But none of them have zero risk. Not not any publicly traded company

[00:20:22] Yeah, no exactly and I'll get to that point as well in a couple of

[00:20:26] Couple of points in terms of risk, but I think it's important

[00:20:30] And I think it's just really important to be open-minded

[00:20:32] I think that's the biggest point here that I've learned over the years

[00:20:36] Nine valuation matters. So overpaying slightly for a great business

[00:20:40] Probably won't matter over the long term because if you overpay slightly, you'll probably do just fine

[00:20:46] If it's a really great business, you'll probably beat the market

[00:20:50] Overpaying massively for the same business will likely result in underperforming investment

[00:20:56] I've also learned that when the markets are extremely overvalued

[00:21:00] It's best to at least take some profits off the table

[00:21:03] I know it's hard to pinpoint when that happens, but I think you know, we can probably both agree that you know

[00:21:11] And of 2021, you know summer fall of 2021

[00:21:15] It probably would have been good in hindsight to you know, take a little bit off of the table at that point

[00:21:22] I think it was as obvious that it could have been obviously hindsight is 2020

[00:21:27] But valuations were extremely stressed a stretch at the time

[00:21:31] Now 10 risk does not equal volatility. I think you're gonna agree with me on that one

[00:21:37] So risk to me is the probability of a loss

[00:21:41] I view a loss as a loss in purchasing power over the period that the investment has been held

[00:21:47] So obviously that's pretty wide ranging, but I think that's the actual proper way to look at risk

[00:21:53] Wall Street might want you to think that risk is volatility because you know what if you do

[00:21:59] They have a product for that and they'll just make a nice little fee

[00:22:03] And in exchange, you'll probably get some nice underperformance. So I think

[00:22:09] That's just my view of it. That's the way I look at things

[00:22:13] Because at the end of the day, like you just said and I'll say my next point

[00:22:17] Every single asset has some risk

[00:22:21] Every single asset has some risk

[00:22:23] And I have always found volatility to be a piss-poor measure of it

[00:22:28] So you and I are both completely completely aligned on that. I mean

[00:22:34] Mr. Market has a lot of external factors

[00:22:39] On how it prices equities in the short term

[00:22:43] The Fed announcement wars a pandemic that breaks out

[00:22:49] and

[00:22:50] Not all the time those have

[00:22:53] Any correlation with the risks the fundamental risks of the of the business

[00:22:58] Now I think the market is actually really really efficient in the long term

[00:23:03] But but horribly inefficient in the short term

[00:23:06] And so the the volatility around mr. Market and how it prices individual equities

[00:23:11] Does not equal business fundamentals

[00:23:14] However, the nice thing about long-term investing is it's eventually

[00:23:18] A weighing machine and the short term it's a it's a voting machine

[00:23:22] Eventually, it's a long-term weighing machine that does reward fundamental investors

[00:23:28] Yeah, no exactly number 11 here every single asset has risk

[00:23:33] So no matter what asset you look at there will be some degree of risk and

[00:23:39] Let's just take cash for example. So a lot of people think about cash like oh, I mean, you know, that's definitely risk-free

[00:23:46] Well under my definition the way I view risk

[00:23:50] The real risk with cash that you're holding is that it will not keep up with inflation

[00:23:54] It will continue to be devalued over time. It will lose value. It will lose purchasing power to me. That's a risk

[00:24:02] I mean if I put money in whatever it is whether it's cash whether it's bonds whether it's bitcoin whether it's a stock

[00:24:08] Whatever it is, you know, it's always looking at the probability that I will lose purchasing power over time

[00:24:15] That's the risk associated with the investment and unfortunately

[00:24:19] I don't think there's any asset out there that has zero risk

[00:24:24] And I think it's just important over well over the years. I think I learned that

[00:24:29] You have to know how to incorporate those risks into your investment thesis and again

[00:24:35] That's why I you know, I think in probabilities, which is a little preview of my next point here

[00:24:41] Yeah probabilities and it being a scale or a spectrum when it comes to risk, but that spectrum never

[00:24:49] Bottoms out at zero. There's always a positive

[00:24:53] Number associated with it if you're to scale out every asset and their risk

[00:24:58] Exactly and that's why my number 12 is I think in probabilities

[00:25:02] And this is how incorporate risk in my investment thesis

[00:25:05] I like to think about probabilities and the expected value of an investment based on those probabilities

[00:25:11] That is something I think I gained because I played so much poker when I was younger

[00:25:16] And expected values are really important concept and I think I'll probably revisit that in an upcoming podcast guy

[00:25:22] I probably could talk like

[00:25:24] 25 30 minutes on that point alone

[00:25:27] But to keep it simple here expected value is just you take a certain scenario. So a certain investment

[00:25:34] You you basically try to do the best move you can

[00:25:39] By thinking if you invest it in that same company say a million times

[00:25:44] Well, what would be the overall expected outcome and the amount of money you'd make on that investment?

[00:25:50] That's the way it's basically looking at it if you had a very large sample

[00:25:55] And then making the best possible decision you can knowing that it is a small sample

[00:26:00] But the idea is if you make that best decision over time

[00:26:04] You will come out a winner in the long run

[00:26:08] Now number 13 I try not to waste time arguing with close-minded investors

[00:26:14] You know that's harder

[00:26:16] Sometimes for me. I don't know about you. I think you had a point that was a bit similar to that did not like waste time on

[00:26:23] Ideas that you're not going to invest in I think if I remember correctly, was that it? That's right

[00:26:28] Yeah, it's like the idea of wasting time on things that you don't have any capital on the line or

[00:26:33] Yeah, you know or don't have any plans if having capital on the line in the future

[00:26:37] It's like just move on no exactly and you know

[00:26:40] Sometimes I it's I guess it's like social media right and twitter and x and you know

[00:26:45] You kind of start, you know, you tweet something or you look at someone's post and then you kind of write a comment

[00:26:51] There's back and forth, but I've noticed some people are just not open-minded

[00:26:56] They have a view and no matter how much like good data that you're showing them that maybe you should reconsider that view

[00:27:03] They won't change their mind. You know, I'm trying to just

[00:27:07] Stay away from those because it's just not productive

[00:27:10] Yeah, it's like when

[00:27:12] You get these really groovy investors

[00:27:16] That still are obsessed with like amc and game stop and you know their portfolio typically has those a little bit of

[00:27:23] Palantir and tesla in there, of course

[00:27:25] that's what those portfolios look like and and they just

[00:27:29] Say no matter what short sellers at the devil no matter what right without

[00:27:35] having front of any real experience or any real idea on

[00:27:39] the value that a lot of

[00:27:41] That that is derived from people calling out frauds for instance like I'm not saying any of those companies are those but to just say

[00:27:49] Short sellers of the devil

[00:27:51] They're terrible human beings to roast them online and it's just like

[00:27:56] Very very closed-minded and and very um

[00:28:02] Obvious their motivation on just they want number to go up and anyone who disagrees with number go up

[00:28:09] They equal bad

[00:28:10] That's just like I just don't have time for that kind of thinking it's just garbage man. It's terrible

[00:28:16] No, I totally agree. I mean I think short sellers are a healthy part of the markets

[00:28:20] Right. I think you need to have people that are you know, maybe

[00:28:25] Have a different thesis than you do than the overall market

[00:28:28] I think it's just healthy pointing out fraud or things that may be suspicious

[00:28:32] Or even certain type of investor you say roti investor

[00:28:35] But also I've seen like I like investing in dividend stocks

[00:28:39] But there's like a corner of twitter where it's literally like

[00:28:44] You know people just look at yield

[00:28:46] Yeah portfolio on that yield only and then they just post whatever dividend income they're getting but for

[00:28:53] You know little we know there might be the portfolio might be like

[00:28:58] massively underperforming the market, which is usually the case

[00:29:02] But they are steadfast. I mean you asked them what the payout ratio is and they don't even know what a payout ratio is

[00:29:08] So that's kind of that's also what comes to mind here

[00:29:12] People love the idea of passive income

[00:29:16] Well, and the more I

[00:29:18] The more I learn about income is the more I realize that passive and income don't go together particularly well

[00:29:25] And it's not to say that these companies can't pay

[00:29:28] Dividends but the idea of passive income has hurt more people than not in my view

[00:29:34] Yeah, you know, I totally agree. Number 14 here wall street is great at marketing

[00:29:40] Show me the hot newest trend from wall street and I'll show you fees and underperformance

[00:29:45] I mean, I've been pretty critical of private equity and I think rightfully so that's just the latest example

[00:29:50] I mean you can think and we've been pretty vocal about that high fee mutual funds

[00:29:56] How they underperform

[00:29:58] low-cost index funds how some of these

[00:30:01] High fee mutual funds are actually closet indexing and just charging two two and a half percent versus

[00:30:07] You know 10 basis points for the same pretty much identical or very close to in terms of index fund

[00:30:14] That's what I've realized over the years

[00:30:16] They're really good at making people think that this hot new thing

[00:30:20] Will make him rich and is the best investment

[00:30:23] I found also that usually when you look at those investments, you realize pretty quickly that

[00:30:28] They're pretty lucrative in terms of fees. Yeah, they certainly are. I can't believe there are still so many

[00:30:36] You know two and a half percent Canadian mutual fund fees off the top

[00:30:41] They got other charges along the way

[00:30:44] layer on some transaction fees and they're holding like

[00:30:48] a

[00:30:50] S&P 500 for their client. It's just it's

[00:30:54] You know what at least they've realized those closet indexers at least they've realized they can't beat the index by picking

[00:31:01] Yeah, you know like we'll give them some credit right at least they've admitted all defeat here at this point

[00:31:08] Yeah, exactly and look at the end of today

[00:31:10] It's probably better for people to be in those mutual funds than not invest at all

[00:31:14] So I guess that's probably an argument they can make but again, you know, it's just that's what I've learned over the years

[00:31:21] I mean, I kind of knew that a while back, but I've been noticing even other products

[00:31:26] I mean one we've talked about is covered calls

[00:31:28] Right, so there are sold as these like covered colleagues. He has these great products

[00:31:34] And I mean if you want income sure it's a great product from that perspective

[00:31:37] But then when you start crunching the number and you think about the math behind them

[00:31:41] You realize that the downside protection is actually quite small

[00:31:45] It does give you a little bit of more downside protection, but it actually cuts

[00:31:50] cuts your

[00:31:52] upside

[00:31:53] by a much

[00:31:55] Bigger potential than the downside protection it offers and we've seen I I should pull some numbers for those

[00:32:01] But the amount of covered call ETFs my god over the last few years is just exploded

[00:32:07] Yeah, and I think one of my points was

[00:32:09] complexity is rarely rewarded. I have noticed

[00:32:13] Yeah, now that's not to say that complex ideas can't work or complex strategies can't work

[00:32:18] It's just that I have witnessed a much lower batting average and complexity just generally is not rewarded. It's

[00:32:27] Simple ideas

[00:32:28] Executed well for a really long time that usually are rewarded

[00:32:32] Yeah, well put number 15 here real estate is like any other investment

[00:32:37] So if you don't pick real

[00:32:39] To pick the right real estate asset to invest in

[00:32:42] Overpaid don't get the right financing or overlook certain expenses or even, you know, don't have the right tenants

[00:32:49] I'm thinking more about the investment part here. It's not going to be a great investment

[00:32:54] I mean, I think it's fair to say that a lot of people learn that a hard way in the last four or five years

[00:33:00] I mean if you want to even add to the fact, you know, if people are thinking at their primary residence as an investment

[00:33:06] Although I think that's a little

[00:33:08] You know, you have to be careful with that because it's like it's a place to live in obviously

[00:33:12] appreciates in value good, but and for some people it's just a way for them to save

[00:33:18] So I guess in that perspective, it's not that bad of an idea

[00:33:22] But at the end of the day, I think it's just like buying stocks like anything else

[00:33:26] If you overpay for it or it's not a great doesn't have great fundamentals

[00:33:32] It's probably not going to end up being a good investment for you

[00:33:36] sand number 16 here

[00:33:38] total returns are what matter for me and I'll specify here because for some depending where you're at on your investing journey or what you're

[00:33:48] You know in terms of

[00:33:50] How you react to fluctuations in the market

[00:33:54] Capital preservation might be more important and that's completely fine. If that's your main goal, that's okay

[00:34:00] For others it might be dividend income

[00:34:03] Because they want to have that income again for psychological reason even if they underperform the market

[00:34:09] That dividend income prevents them from making a rash move when the market is in a drawdown for example

[00:34:16] There might be merit to that but for me at this point in my life total returns are the most important

[00:34:21] When I get older it's likely

[00:34:24] Going to be a bit more focused between balancing total returns, but also capital preservation

[00:34:29] So maybe 15 20 years down the line. I'm like, okay

[00:34:32] I still want to maximize my total returns, but not at all costs

[00:34:37] I want a bit more of capital preservation

[00:34:40] Because I'd you know, I'll be close to 60 and I may be working less and so on so I think that's really

[00:34:47] That's really a personal thing. I think that's really important

[00:34:50] Obviously you and I at the stage we're at in our lives

[00:34:54] I think I speak for you here that total returns are also, you know, your main focus

[00:34:59] But I wanted to mention that that you know, it's not for everyone

[00:35:03] But I think it's just important to know to understand and to have that internal discussion

[00:35:08] Like what are you trying to achieve? Yeah, and let's not kid ourselves here. We're we're trying to make money, right?

[00:35:14] Like that's that's we're trying to compound

[00:35:18] wealth and

[00:35:20] Investing is a pretty good way to do that and it's it's worked for a couple people if you haven't heard

[00:35:25] And it's and it's worked and it's worked exceptionally well for us

[00:35:29] And for our stage right now, I mean total returns are what matter

[00:35:33] I mean there you can get all on your high horse and say, I don't I don't like this asset

[00:35:38] I don't like that asset

[00:35:40] And there'll be people who are completely unconstrained and run laps around your performance

[00:35:45] You know what I mean? Like it's at the end of the day

[00:35:48] What are you optimizing for if if I'm optimizing for, you know, I just want to own companies I believe in

[00:35:55] then

[00:35:57] That might be a strategy that works

[00:35:59] But I I think most people are optimizing for how can I compound at the highest total return possible?

[00:36:05] And whatever that is. That's the one I want. Yeah, and think of it too. I was listening to another podcast

[00:36:10] I'd like to give credit but um

[00:36:12] I think it was Brent Johnson that was talking about that because he's a money manager and he was saying, you know, like if you

[00:36:20] Let's say you have like 10 million dollars worth of assets, right?

[00:36:24] Maybe, you know, your main priority is to make sure it doesn't go down to 2 million

[00:36:29] Like maybe that's your main priority that it doesn't go down to 2 million that you achieve reasonable returns, but

[00:36:37] You know, you want to reduce that volatility and you know, that's perfectly fine

[00:36:42] You know, that's probably for a lot of people that were like, yeah, if I had 10 million dollars in assets

[00:36:47] I probably managing it that way and my focus would be on capital preservation more than

[00:36:54] Compounding at the highest rate possible. So I think it's just important to you know

[00:36:58] For people to understand that because at the end of the day is what do you want to achieve?

[00:37:02] Yeah, it's like in your life

[00:37:03] Do you want to live amazingly and make sure that you never have to draw down below a few million dollars?

[00:37:09] Or are you trying to compound it or are you 32 and want to compound it to a billion?

[00:37:13] Like those are those are very different

[00:37:16] Goals in aspirations and I think either one or fine if you know with conviction on which one you want to do

[00:37:23] So

[00:37:23] I'm with you. So that said, those were my 16 points. So I'm sure we'll

[00:37:28] You know give us another five years. I'm sure we'll add in a few each of our own in there

[00:37:33] Yeah, sounds good. We'll have to come up with uh

[00:37:35] In a few years, maybe our 20 and we'll do 10 each or something

[00:37:39] All right to round out today's show. Thank you, Simone. That was great to round out the show

[00:37:43] We can talk about reddits search engine optimization

[00:37:48] And the traffic spike so reddit.com has a domain authority rating of 95

[00:37:56] Do you know what domain authority is Simone or is this a new topic to you?

[00:38:01] That's new. I'm gonna assume that it's how valuable their domain is I would say but maybe I'm wrong

[00:38:07] It's basically a calculation that a lot of third parties use

[00:38:12] To estimate the domain authority because at the end of the day google's

[00:38:17] Domain authority and ranking and algorithm is proprietary

[00:38:21] So a lot of companies that are big in this space like ah refs similar web

[00:38:27] Semrush, they'll come up maws. They'll come up with their own score

[00:38:30] And they'll all usually differ by a point or two

[00:38:33] And this I think it's similar web has them at a 95

[00:38:38] And what that means is that they are in like the top

[00:38:42] Top percent of the top percent of the top percent of the top percent of websites globally because the scale is logarithmic in terms of like

[00:38:49] You know going from 94 to 95 is like the same as going from

[00:38:54] Like one to 90 it fund some basic rough math. So it's it's it's logarithmic on the way up

[00:39:02] and so 95 is like immense one of the highest in in the world and the main way that

[00:39:11] google

[00:39:13] ranks

[00:39:14] The quality of your website is by high quality backlinks

[00:39:18] So that it says here that 2.8 billion backlinks to reddit exist

[00:39:24] which is

[00:39:25] An amazing number because that means that there's 2.8 billion places on the internet that points to reddit that links to reddit

[00:39:33] And a lot of them are really high quality

[00:39:36] Resources so say like cnn covers something and they link to reddit cnn has a really high domain authority

[00:39:43] They're linking to to reddit and that's seo juice for reddit. That's like

[00:39:48] That's like google thinking in their algorithm

[00:39:51] That's a really positive sign for this company. So if I remove some adult websites

[00:39:59] In the top 10 in the top 10 ranking, yeah, uh, if I remove one of the adult websites

[00:40:07] You get search traffic from google top 10

[00:40:10] youtube

[00:40:11] Wikipedia facebook instagram twitter

[00:40:16] whatsapp

[00:40:17] Pinterest the google play

[00:40:20] link

[00:40:21] and

[00:40:22] reddit

[00:40:23] So that's a an immense list to be among that's ahead of

[00:40:29] amazon.com ahead of apple.com ahead of tick tock.com. So that that's that's the source here

[00:40:36] and

[00:40:37] I tweeted out a few months back saying

[00:40:40] Or like a few weeks back saying has anyone noticed google is really ranking reddit on the top of search engine results pages

[00:40:49] A.k.a the SERP the SERP means search engine results page. So when I search

[00:40:54] finchat on

[00:40:56] Google the search engine results page is what you see on that prompt

[00:41:00] so you want to be as high up on the SERP as possible because

[00:41:05] There's a massive drop-off on clicks you get as you go lower on the search

[00:41:10] Lower on the SERP like if i'm on the SERP on page three

[00:41:14] There's a joke in seo that you know, that's where they hide the dead bodies

[00:41:18] No one will know no one you can hide the dead bodies on the third page of of the SERP

[00:41:22] I mean no one will know even the second page is usually

[00:41:26] I can't remember the last day my scrolled to the second page of a google search result

[00:41:32] That's right. That's like so so rare and then like third page like

[00:41:36] You never ever have done it right like that's like typical for most users and so

[00:41:41] So

[00:41:42] The google algorithm

[00:41:44] Updated in june 2023 and they're averaging like around a hundred million pages ranking on the search engine optimize a search engine results pages

[00:41:53] That started taking off in june 2023 and it took off again when google announced that they were gonna

[00:42:01] increase the SERP ranking for

[00:42:04] Forums, which is what reddit is. It's a forum

[00:42:08] It since june 2023

[00:42:11] Reddit was around a ranking on around a hundred million

[00:42:15] google SERPs

[00:42:17] And they are now about to cross six hundred million

[00:42:21] So they've basically six six xed results on search engine results pages

[00:42:27] Since june of 2023 so less than one year. We've seen this

[00:42:33] insane rise

[00:42:34] On that and so the traffic has been

[00:42:38] The traffic growth from google has been massive

[00:42:42] And you get people who would not like regularly go on reddit or be familiar with reddit

[00:42:48] Going through the forums because

[00:42:51] They're being directed there by the most world's most popular search engine

[00:42:55] So I thought that that was pretty interesting that there was like actual data behind my like what I thought was just

[00:43:01] Anecdotal so so that's pretty interesting and I found another little piece of information here that canada

[00:43:08] massively out

[00:43:10] You know out shoots our weight here when it comes to search traffic

[00:43:15] From canada to reddit

[00:43:17] 8.3 percent of reddit search traffic comes from canada

[00:43:21] Only a one decimal point behind the uk and then the us is the highest

[00:43:26] But you know population adjusted canadians are big users of reddit. Yeah, I didn't see the title. I'm like

[00:43:33] Where's the us in here? But okay excluding us

[00:43:37] Yeah, I don't know what it is if we would include us but

[00:43:41] Whoever made this graph wanted it x us so

[00:43:45] Sure, then australia then germany then india then france then netherlands brazil

[00:43:50] So

[00:43:51] They've ipo'd I don't have a whole lot to comment on the business the ipo that came out hot

[00:43:56] They're trading just a few percentage points less than the ipo as of recording

[00:44:01] So it's it's hasn't been, you know, a big debut other than maybe hot out of the gate

[00:44:05] Gross margins are fantastic

[00:44:08] You know, they do expect analysts are expecting revenue to basically double over the next three years

[00:44:14] and

[00:44:15] Allegedly going to produce real gap profits over the next

[00:44:18] 2025 2026

[00:44:21] So it's a pretty damn expensive stock if you just if you know if you try to justify the eight billion in

[00:44:27] enterprise value, but

[00:44:30] The network effect is legit

[00:44:32] It's gonna be like this is a really hard to kill

[00:44:35] idea like

[00:44:37] the

[00:44:38] forum

[00:44:40] It's become the forum of all forums. It's become the forum of every niche category. You can think of

[00:44:46] There is a niche category community that exists on reddit for every single thing you can think of on planet earth

[00:44:54] And that's really hard to kill because network effects are amazing

[00:44:58] You know, if you want to

[00:45:00] Find people that are in the same niche or in the same interest as you

[00:45:05] And there's already a category that exists on reddit like that's where those conversations are going to exist

[00:45:10] And that's where they're existing on right now

[00:45:13] By way of business, I don't know. Uh, well, I think they're gonna have to figure out the advertising platform a little bit better

[00:45:18] But this is an extremely impressive network effect that

[00:45:23] All these years later is getting a massive boost in traffic

[00:45:27] So maybe they're seeing this and they're like let's IPO. Let's capture capture it now

[00:45:32] Yeah, I mean, I think it's as good of a time to IPO than any other time

[00:45:36] Honestly with the way the markets are doing so I I obviously would expect them to to try an IPO now

[00:45:42] To me like kind of two key takeaways first, you know, what if google

[00:45:48] Changes the algorithm

[00:45:50] And now they start dropping on the list. I think that's a key risk for them

[00:45:54] The other are the moderators

[00:45:56] If reddit starts making a lot of money at some point, you know, these are volunteers

[00:46:04] They may want a share of the profits. I think that's definitely a risk

[00:46:08] Nor they can buy the stock

[00:46:11] Yeah

[00:46:13] I still think that's a risk worth noting and then I think there's a lot of people that think

[00:46:18] Automatically, they'll be able to sell their data off to train AI models

[00:46:22] And you know at times I find

[00:46:25] You know some of the stuff coming from reddit is questionable at best

[00:46:28] Obviously, you can be upranked and then the quality might be a bit better

[00:46:33] But you know on the one hand, you know, the quality of the data might be an issue if that's a

[00:46:38] An avenue they want to take to generate revenues and on the other end

[00:46:43] I mean, sure you can sell it but then

[00:46:46] You know, you've sold all your historical data going forward

[00:46:49] You may have an agreement to sell it on a going forward basis

[00:46:53] But that's not going to be as lucrative at what you sold as a lot like a big chunk of your data already

[00:47:01] So I think there's definitely some big risk, but I I mean

[00:47:04] I've used reddit. I have an account on reddit

[00:47:06] I do use it for what you kind of mention is when there's a niche topic that I can't really find

[00:47:14] You know good information anywhere reddit will usually be the space where you can find some some information on that again

[00:47:23] The tricky part is usually figuring out whether it's good information or not. Yeah, I think the

[00:47:29] The AI plays that the data and the way the forums work is that it's so question and answer

[00:47:35] And that's typically how people today are prompting generative AI like rethinking search with question and answer

[00:47:42] And so I guess from an open AI type, you know player that will want to consume a lot of that data

[00:47:48] Or even a google or whoever else

[00:47:51] Yeah, they're trying to license it for free, but it's still such a gray area around

[00:47:57] What is

[00:47:59] What is what should be paid for what should be licensed? What's free? What's what's available on the open internet?

[00:48:05] This is a giant

[00:48:07] Gray area

[00:48:08] So I agree with you that it is a massive risk to lean on that as like a lever that they can pull

[00:48:13] because we have no idea that

[00:48:16] There's an even a case against someone just scraping

[00:48:19] Mass on the internet and like gpting it like there. It's still really gray. I think that oh, yeah

[00:48:25] No, you're absolutely most people would say like yeah that data should be licensed

[00:48:29] There's an ip around that for sure

[00:48:30] But that's not that's not a guarantee right now. I think the new york times and open ai have a huge

[00:48:36] Suit going on right now. Yeah, they do. Yeah, there's a lot to happen still

[00:48:41] It'll be fascinating to just keep an eye on it

[00:48:43] But like you said, I mean the valuation implies like a lot of

[00:48:48] optimistic forecast going forward

[00:48:50] I'll just say it that way and whenever there's a lot of you know

[00:48:54] A lot of things that have to go right for the investment to turn out. Well, that's where you know

[00:48:59] I tend to just be happy to stay on the sidelines and

[00:49:03] And watch that's right. And I think

[00:49:07] I think a lot of people who are reddit users were very excited to jump on the the

[00:49:12] Because it's a passionate fan base

[00:49:15] It's very passionate fan base. I mean they see that it is one of those

[00:49:21] Places that it's almost unbelievable that it exists like that this is a real thing that exists like a forum

[00:49:28] But it's not a forum on anything. It's a forum for everything. There's a subcategory for

[00:49:34] Everything that's impossible to recreate. I think in this day and age

[00:49:38] It's just it's just it was first and I don't think there's gonna be it's gonna be last

[00:49:42] Yeah, but

[00:49:44] Whether it's a good business or investment. Oh, yeah, that's that's another question. That's a real question exactly. That's um

[00:49:50] I agree with you. I don't think it's going anywhere soon. I just

[00:49:53] I don't know. Maybe we'll I'll be proven wrong and becomes a fantastic business in you know, five years down the line

[00:50:00] It's just I don't know. Have a hard time seeing it

[00:50:03] It's kind of like snapchat, right? It's it's like my pitch for snapchat is it's like

[00:50:08] This could remain a clown car terrible ad platform forever

[00:50:12] It could and that's the bear case

[00:50:15] But what if they figure it out, right?

[00:50:17] Like what if the clown car figures it out because the getting the traffic and the stickiness like snapchat or like red

[00:50:24] That's the hard part. Yeah, it is but maybe not I maybe just

[00:50:28] Maybe youtube and instagram and google and facebook did such a good job

[00:50:32] And no one else can figure it out that there's more moat to this than they think but

[00:50:38] I I think it's more clown car behavior than anything

[00:50:41] I would probably agree with you

[00:50:46] When you think they have it figure it out they have a way to like

[00:50:50] Slash your hopes. I think that's what I've learned about them. Yeah, I agree. It's amazing like

[00:50:57] You did the hard part now. Stop fumbling the bag. All right. Thanks for listening folks

[00:51:02] We really appreciate you. We are here mondays and thursdays if you have not checked out finch at

[00:51:10] Finch at is the generative ai platform investment research platform that we do all of our research on for individual companies here

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[00:51:26] But it is legitimately

[00:51:29] The best equity research platform on the internet right now

[00:51:32] Like I can't think of a better platform for actual fundamentals

[00:51:37] If if you're looking for macro can help if you're looking for etf data

[00:51:41] Can't help you yet if you're looking for oh, yeah dive. Yeah, yeah

[00:51:47] Okay, okay

[00:51:48] Yet that's coming probably this quarter

[00:51:50] But if you are looking to dive into a specific company get everything from their investor relations the graphing capability for every metric

[00:52:01] It's just the place to go and now that everything in from investor relations and filings and holdings are all in there

[00:52:08] You don't have to flip back and forth between investor relations. So

[00:52:11] It's a bit of a one-stop shop now. So that is at finch at dot i o you can get 15 off by using code

[00:52:17] Tci

[00:52:18] Canadian investor tci

[00:52:20] A check out you have 15 off. Hey simon. Yeah, that's it. Yeah

[00:52:25] How's the back holding up?

[00:52:27] It's good still it's only one piece. So I just came back from uh from chiral. So that's feeling pretty good right now

[00:52:34] So slow but steady and that's what I've learned over the years. You're standing right now, right? Yeah. Yeah

[00:52:40] How much of the day are you standing for work? I would say

[00:52:44] 95 percent. Yeah, really. Oh, yeah. Yeah

[00:52:48] 90 percent a bit more right now

[00:52:51] But yeah, it's been like a month and a half literally like the first week. I would like get around

[00:52:57] 7 30

[00:52:58] I'd like I have a mat to lie down to watch tv with my wife with when we watch because I was just right on the floor

[00:53:05] I like doing that too. Yeah, just because my god like literally I encourage anyone try standing for like

[00:53:12] several days in a row

[00:53:14] And sitting like literally like less than 30 minutes your legs will get pretty pretty sore. Yeah, it's uh

[00:53:21] It's a good feet gets sore

[00:53:23] Yeah, I mean, I guess I got used to it. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay one of my first jobs ever

[00:53:29] I was a cashier at sobies uh, but my cottage a summer job like part time

[00:53:34] Oh, yeah, and I was the cashier. I don't know why I was the cashier

[00:53:38] All I wanted to do was go hide in the aisles and stock shelves

[00:53:41] But I was a freaking cashier and you had to stand there for eight hours in a row and

[00:53:47] I found that to be extremely painful on the feet

[00:53:52] Yeah, maybe you used to baby

[00:53:54] Yeah, you gotta use to if you can get like a little kind of mat that helps too

[00:53:59] And you know, I stand but I mean I'm I'm on my feet, but I like standing still versus walking around

[00:54:06] It's not the same. So uh, you know walking around does help a little bit, but uh, no, I'm still standing

[00:54:12] And uh, you know still standing still standing

[00:54:16] There you go. That's the that's the anecdote you need still standing. Thanks for standing with us listeners

[00:54:22] We appreciate you. We've been doing this a long time

[00:54:25] We're gonna keep doing as long as we can if you can support finch at and then you can support the show at

[00:54:30] Join tci.com. That is our patreon page seen a few days. Take care. Bye. Bye

[00:54:36] The canadian investor podcast should not be construed as investment or financial advice

[00:54:42] The host and guest featured may own securities or assets discussed on this podcast

[00:54:48] Always do your own due diligence or consult with a financial professional before making any financial or investment decisions